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  #21 (permalink)  
Old November 21st, 2007
News
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Posts: n/a
Default NO!! Oxford is FULL of crap - as ALWAYS



IMHO IIRC wrote:

> In news:Xns99EEBBE9BB7B8isheforreal@216.196.97.142,
> CozmicDebris <isheforreal> typed:
>
>>DTC <me@nothingtoseehere.zzx> wrote in news:ADL0j.492$Vq.290
>>@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com:
>>
>>
>>>Oxford wrote:
>>>
>>>>Apple always disrupts static, non-functioning markets, then takes all.
>>>
>>>Always???
>>>
>>>Lets see....
>>>
>>>1) Apple III computer, circa 1980 - overheating problems.
>>>
>>>2) Lisa - Thousands buried in a landfill for a tax credit.
>>>
>>>3) SJ's Next computer - never found a market, until Apple bought it.
>>>
>>>4) Power Mac Cube - Shelved within a year after it was introduced.
>>>
>>>5) Apple Cyberdog - It was a dog.
>>>
>>>6) Taligent - Dead after a few years
>>>
>>>7) EWorld - Dead after two years.
>>>
>>>8) Pippin - Couldn't compete with Sony Playstation, Sega Saturn and
>>>Nintendo 64. Less than 45,000 sold.
>>>
>>>9) 20th Anniversary Macintosh - Discontinued after one year, could the
>>>$7,499 price been a factor?
>>>
>>>10) Macintosh Portable - The $6,500 price killed it off.
>>>
>>>11) Newton - The "future of computing". Six year life.
>>>
>>>12) Puck Mouse - No one could figure out which end was up.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>You forgot Apple TV.

>
>
>
>
> Where is Oxford when we need him to explain how all these devices dominated
> the market and killed off the competition?
>



Undoubtedly, furiously screen-scraping material that he doesn't
understand, but believes to be responsive, with which to reply.

Or asking SJ ...
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old November 21st, 2007
CozmicDebris
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Posts: n/a
Default NO!! Oxford is FULL of crap - as ALWAYS

News <News@Groups.com> wrote in
news:gdWdnbeSerPavNnanZ2dnUVZ_tninZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:

>
>
> IMHO IIRC wrote:
>
>> In news:Xns99EEBBE9BB7B8isheforreal@216.196.97.142,
>> CozmicDebris <isheforreal> typed:
>>
>>>DTC <me@nothingtoseehere.zzx> wrote in news:ADL0j.492$Vq.290
>>>@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Oxford wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Apple always disrupts static, non-functioning markets, then takes
>>>>>all.
>>>>
>>>>Always???
>>>>
>>>>Lets see....
>>>>
>>>>1) Apple III computer, circa 1980 - overheating problems.
>>>>
>>>>2) Lisa - Thousands buried in a landfill for a tax credit.
>>>>
>>>>3) SJ's Next computer - never found a market, until Apple bought it.
>>>>
>>>>4) Power Mac Cube - Shelved within a year after it was introduced.
>>>>
>>>>5) Apple Cyberdog - It was a dog.
>>>>
>>>>6) Taligent - Dead after a few years
>>>>
>>>>7) EWorld - Dead after two years.
>>>>
>>>>8) Pippin - Couldn't compete with Sony Playstation, Sega Saturn and
>>>>Nintendo 64. Less than 45,000 sold.
>>>>
>>>>9) 20th Anniversary Macintosh - Discontinued after one year, could
>>>>the $7,499 price been a factor?
>>>>
>>>>10) Macintosh Portable - The $6,500 price killed it off.
>>>>
>>>>11) Newton - The "future of computing". Six year life.
>>>>
>>>>12) Puck Mouse - No one could figure out which end was up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>You forgot Apple TV.

>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Where is Oxford when we need him to explain how all these devices
>> dominated the market and killed off the competition?
>>

>
>
> Undoubtedly, furiously screen-scraping material that he doesn't
> understand, but believes to be responsive, with which to reply.


He probably is trying to get past the 100,000 links that beat the above
list into his head.

>
> Or asking SJ ...


How would he do that with his mouth full?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old November 22nd, 2007
Mitch
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Default NO!! Oxford is FULL of crap - as ALWAYS

In article <bob-0A51DC.18065220112007@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Bob Campbell <bob@bob.bob> wrote:

> Apple introduced a big, slow, locked,
> expensive, proprietary phone


Wow -- you, too, are wrong on almost every point
it isn't very big, and it certainly isn't big compared to anything that
has close to that screen res.
it isn't particularly slow processing
locked isn't horrible, and it isn't any problem for almost everyone
it isn't expensive compared to most phones with a high-res screen (and
it's totally foolish to compare to ANYTHING that doesn't have that --
it's the PRIME feature!)
Just what are you calling proprietary?

> into a market dominated by smaller, faster,
> less expensive models


smaller models are missing the major factor that it is built on -- the
one that says it's idiotic to compare to anything else.
Yes, if you are satisfied with a phone that has a 160x160 screen, then
iPhone isn't for you -- because nearly everything iPhone is made to be
good at is nearly impossible on that cheap phone.
(I need not even explain why that major primary factor makes the phone
more expensive, nor why the people who need that feature aren't being
ripped off, right?)

It doesn't mean iPhone is bad, or a bad choice, it means it isn't the
phone for that customer.
It doesn't mean Apple made a bad phone for that customer -- it means
they didn't make anything for that customer at all!
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old November 22nd, 2007
Mark Crispin
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Default NO!! Oxford is FULL of crap - as ALWAYS

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007, Mitch wrote:
> it isn't very big, and it certainly isn't big compared to anything that
> has close to that screen res.


iPhone is huge compared to devices which have twice or four times the
screen resolution. Apple must have gotten a cheap deal on some old
technology LCDs

> it isn't particularly slow processing
> locked isn't horrible, and it isn't any problem for almost everyone


Being locked is most certainly a problem when it is locked to the worst
major carrier in the US.

> Just what are you calling proprietary?


As a phone, it isn't particularly proprietary, but as an Internet access
device it is. The Internet access device market is one in which the
entire firmware (not just selected pieces) is open source, and in which
people can, and do, produce and distribute their own modified firmware.

> Yes, if you are satisfied with a phone that has a 160x160 screen, then
> iPhone isn't for you -- because nearly everything iPhone is made to be
> good at is nearly impossible on that cheap phone.


I am not satisfied with an Internet access device that has a cheap, tiny,
320x480 screen. Access to "the real Internet" requires at least 800
pixels of width (preferably 1024 or more) and at least 480 pixels of
height (preferably 600, 768, or more). It is not "the real Internet" if
you have to zoom out to an unreadable level to see page layout, then zoom
in to read the text. It is not "the real Internet" if web designers have
to create special CSS to "optimize" for your device.

LCD screens are on the market that are not substantially larger than
iPhone, but have 800x600 and 1024x600 resolutions. The 800x600 screen is
on a device that sells for slightly more than 1/2 the price of iPhone.

I can't get over how HUGE the pixels are in iPhone. Maybe you think that
that is decent image resolution, but to me it is like looking at a
newspaper.

> (I need not even explain why that major primary factor makes the phone
> more expensive, nor why the people who need that feature aren't being
> ripped off, right?)


That argument doesn't wash. Three year old screen technology (and yes,
320x480 screens were on phones in Japan in 2004) isn't that expensive.

> It doesn't mean iPhone is bad, or a bad choice, it means it isn't the
> phone for that customer.
> It doesn't mean Apple made a bad phone for that customer -- it means
> they didn't make anything for that customer at all!


These arguments may be correct. The problem is that certain cretins (most
notably Oxford) claim that iPhone is the be-all and end-all for everybody.

iPhone's legitimate market is that of a way-cool iPod that is also a phone
and an Internet access device; and its legitimate customers are those who
want a way-cool iPod that is also a phone and an Internet access device.

iPhone is not "the best phone". As a phone, it is mediocre. It is large,
it is expensive, it is locked, it is 2G-only, and its voice performance is
merely adequate. Other products do better in all of these categories.
Remember, we are talking about "as a phone" -- the screen resolution is
irrelevant here.

iPhone is not "the best Internet access device." As an Internet access
device, it is slightly better than most consumer phones; but quite
inadequate compared to other mobile devices on the market. The Nokia 800
kicks iPhone butt in this regard.

Case in point. iPod Touch, which started out as iPhone minus the phone,
is failing badly in the market. The question is not "if" Apple will
cancel it, but "when". It is overpriced, both as an iPod and as an
Internet access device. It deletes more than just the phone part of
iPhone, making it much less attractive. Clearly, Apple was worried that
iPod Touch would compete with iPhone, but in the process of making it
non-competitive with iPhone they made it non-competitive with the Nokia
N800.

iPhone is not a business tool at all. It lacks the business tools found
in smart phones. The few executives who tried iPhone as a substitute for
Blackberry quickly went back to their Blackberry.

Nobody, nobody!!, is disputing that iPhone is king of the "way-cool iPod
that is also a phone and an Internet access device" market. For people
who want that sort of thing, iPhone is perfect.

Nonetheless, iPhone is not a serious player in the phone market, nor the
Internet access device market, nor the business tool market. Nor is
iPhone a serious player in the teenager market (way too geeky for the
girls, way too nerdish for most of the boys). iPhone is a toy for adult,
primarily male, nerds who play with technological toys but don't really
*need* it.

iPhone will have at least one follow-on product. But it has pretty much
gotten as much market share as it is going to get; and the successor
iPhone will cannibalize previous sales more than gain new market.

As noted above, iPod Touch is toast, barring a major price drop (e.g.,
$175 for the 8GB version and $250 for the 16GB version). Expect to see
that kind of pricing at firesale if Apple does not buy them back.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old November 22nd, 2007
Tinman
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Default NO!! Oxford is FULL of crap - as ALWAYS

Mark Crispin wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Nov 2007, Mitch wrote:
>> it isn't very big, and it certainly isn't big compared to anything
>> that has close to that screen res.

>
> iPhone is huge compared to devices which have twice or four times the
> screen resolution. Apple must have gotten a cheap deal on some old
> technology LCDs
>


Bzzzt. Wrong. You really do your argument a disservice when you make these
kinds of ridiculous assertions.

Most phones have half the iPhone's pixel count--and this includes
recently-introduced "iPhone killers."

But do please list all of the phones with "twice or four times the"
resolution so we end this silly "huge" comment once and for all. Absurd.


>> it isn't particularly slow processing
>> locked isn't horrible, and it isn't any problem for almost everyone

>
> Being locked is most certainly a problem when it is locked to the
> worst major carrier in the US.


They went with the largest carrier in the USA which, being GSM, allowed them
to use the very same phone internationally. A CDMA iPhone as a first-release
would have been a disaster. At least try to think it through.

I didn't bother reading the rest of your post as your opening comments were
ludicrous. You are no better than Oxford, perhaps worse.


--
Mike


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  #26 (permalink)  
Old November 22nd, 2007
David Friedman
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Default NO!! Oxford is FULL of crap - as ALWAYS

In article <alpine.OSX.0.99999.0711220930110.11691@pangtzu.pa nda.com>,
Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Nov 2007, Mitch wrote:
> > it isn't very big, and it certainly isn't big compared to anything that
> > has close to that screen res.

>
> iPhone is huge compared to devices which have twice or four times the
> screen resolution. Apple must have gotten a cheap deal on some old
> technology LCDs


There is a much smaller portable device with resolution of 960x640? What
is it? That would be more than twice the resolution of the Nokia E90,
which is more expensive than the iPhone and heavier.

....

> I am not satisfied with an Internet access device that has a cheap, tiny,
> 320x480 screen. Access to "the real Internet" requires at least 800
> pixels of width (preferably 1024 or more) and at least 480 pixels of
> height (preferably 600, 768, or more).


That would be very nice. What device that connects via the cell network
and is small enough to be about as convenient as the iPhone meets those
requirements?

The closest I could come was the E90, with 800x352, but it had enough
other problems so that I sent it back.

....

> LCD screens are on the market that are not substantially larger than
> iPhone, but have 800x600 and 1024x600 resolutions. The 800x600 screen is
> on a device that sells for slightly more than 1/2 the price of iPhone.


Is that device a cell phone?

Also, I'm not sure how much good additional resolution does without
additional screen size.

....

> iPhone is not "the best Internet access device." As an Internet access
> device, it is slightly better than most consumer phones; but quite
> inadequate compared to other mobile devices on the market. The Nokia 800
> kicks iPhone butt in this regard.


But isn't a phone. And weighs about four times as much as the iPhone.

--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic.
Published by Baen, in bookstores now
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old November 22nd, 2007
CozmicDebris
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Default NO!! Oxford is FULL of crap - as ALWAYS

"Tinman" <ask@for.it> wrote in news:5qm2koF10ss2nU1@mid.individual.net:


>
> They went with the largest carrier in the USA which, being GSM,
> allowed them to use the very same phone internationally. A CDMA iPhone
> as a first-release would have been a disaster. At least try to think
> it through.


Obviously Apple didn't think so- the CDMA version was submitted to the FCC
long before they panicked and rushed the GSM phone into development. They
also held discussions with Verizon well before AT&T

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  #28 (permalink)  
Old November 22nd, 2007
David Friedman
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Default NO!! Oxford is FULL of crap - as ALWAYS

In article <5qm2koF10ss2nU1@mid.individual.net>, "Tinman" <ask@for.it>
wrote:

> But do please list all of the phones with "twice or four times the"
> resolution so we end this silly "huge" comment once and for all. Absurd.
>


The Nokia E90 works out to about two times the iPhone's resolution. It's
also heavier and more expensive. It does have a 3G connection--provided
you are in Europe where the frequency it uses is supported.

And the current software, at least by my experience, is pretty bad.

--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic.
Published by Baen, in bookstores now
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old November 22nd, 2007
Tinman
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Default NO!! Oxford is FULL of crap - as ALWAYS

CozmicDebris wrote:
> "Tinman" <ask@for.it> wrote:
>>
>> They went with the largest carrier in the USA which, being GSM,
>> allowed them to use the very same phone internationally. A CDMA
>> iPhone as a first-release would have been a disaster. At least try
>> to think it through.

>
> Obviously Apple didn't think so- the CDMA version was submitted to
> the FCC long before they panicked and rushed the GSM phone into
> development. They also held discussions with Verizon well before AT&T


You don't have any idea what Apple thought. In fact I wouldn't trust any of
your ideas at this point, based on your recent posting history.

The fact is the iPhone is GSM and the carrier of choice in the US is AT&T.
Deal with it and stop the whining.


--
Mike


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  #30 (permalink)  
Old November 22nd, 2007
Snit
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Default NO!! Oxford is FULL of crap - as ALWAYS

"Tinman" <ask@for.it> stated in post 5qma25F10qt2qU1@mid.individual.net on
11/22/07 2:19 PM:

> David Friedman wrote:
>> In article <5qm2koF10ss2nU1@mid.individual.net>, "Tinman" <ask@for.it>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> But do please list all of the phones with "twice or four times the"
>>> resolution so we end this silly "huge" comment once and for all.
>>> Absurd.
>>>

>>
>> The Nokia E90 works out to about two times the iPhone's resolution.
>> It's also heavier and more expensive.

>
> That's one, and its main display isn't even twice the resolution. Indeed a
> phone that is more than twice the size, with not quite twice the resolution,
> released with a glaring defect, can't really be used to argue that the
> iPhone is "huge." Not claiming you were arguing that, but I bring it up
> nonetheless.
>
> Still waiting for the list of phones that are smaller than the iPhone and
> have two to *four* (chuckle) times the resolution. Until then this comment
> from the cosmic brainiac is a joke: "iPhone is huge compared to devices
> which have twice or four times the screen resolution."
>

Hey! Do I get to add that claim of his to the list I started with his other
BS claims:

* Wikipedia is wrong about Apple technologies... but he is right.

* Apple is wrong about Apple technologies... but he is right.

* I am wrong about how to spell my online name... but he is right.

* He can find a $700 laptop that does more than the Mac Oxford
pointed to.

He never managed to support any of those claims. Funny that, eh?

--
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
--Aldous Huxley

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