> Same here, I buy my phones overseas usually and just pop in my TMo SIM.
> The whole concept of buying a phone from the carrier is really quite odd
> and pretty much limited to the USA & Canada. I don't buy lamps, bulbs
> and appliances from the electric company or my BBQ or water heater from
> the gas company, I don't buy plumbing fixtures from the water company, I
> don't buy TV's from the cable company or even phones from the phone
> company (since the Carterphone decision of 40 years ago anyway) so why
> would one buy a mobile phone from a mobile operator?
Because they're heavily discounted. If the gas company offered me a water
heater for $1 I'd buy it from them instead of a home improvement store.
> ... so why would one buy a mobile phone from a mobile operator?
In return for a 1 or 2 year contract obligation, the providers offer
discounts on the hardware.
My Verizon contract expires today, and I just received an email from
them offering me deals on all sorts of nifty phones, all requiring
contract extensions.
On 2008-05-16, BruceR <razrbruce@NOgmailSPAM.com> wrote:
> M.L. wrote:
>>>>> Selection certainly could be one factor- their selection is piss
>>>>> poor, unless you want one of there seeming endless "limited
>>>>> edition" Sidekicks, the quasi-PDa for the slacker generation.
>>>>> High-end handset selection is one of the worst.
>>>>
>>>> Most unlockable AT&T phones are available to T-Mobile users.
>>>
>>> True, but that'd be hard for T-Mo to market wouldn't it? "Buy your
>>> phone at AT&T for full price, then come to us for service! For a
>>> limited time, we'll pay the unlocking fee!"
>>>
>>> I wouldn't hold my breath...
>>
>> T-mobile doesn't have to sell that feature at all. Many T-mobile
>> users, including myself, purchased an AT&T phone to use with T-mobile
>> service.
>
> Same here, I buy my phones overseas usually and just pop in my TMo SIM.
> The whole concept of buying a phone from the carrier is really quite odd
> and pretty much limited to the USA & Canada.
It is hardly limited to the USA and Canada, it is also common in
countries in Europe and Asia I'm familiar with. The carrier will
sell you a discounted, branded phone in return for you signing
a contract. The discounts are often much deeper than in the US
in fact. In the UK they'll give you very high end phones for free
in return for signing a sufficiently high priced contract (there are
people who have never paid for a phone) since there is no such thing
as an Early Termination Fee there and contracts commit you to pay for
the full term.
It is the case that in most of those countries it is much easier
than in the US to find a store selling unbranded phones, but buying
discounted phones from the carrier is still popular.
> company (since the Carterphone decision of 40 years ago anyway) so why
> would one buy a mobile phone from a mobile operator?
Because the operator will sell it to you cheap? That's the exact
opposite of the situation after Carterphone when it was the equipment
from third parties that was cheap.
BruceR <razrbruce@NOgmailSPAM.com> wrote
> M.L. wrote
>>>>> Selection certainly could be one factor- their selection is piss
>>>>> poor, unless you want one of there seeming endless "limited
>>>>> edition" Sidekicks, the quasi-PDa for the slacker generation.
>>>>> High-end handset selection is one of the worst.
>>>> Most unlockable AT&T phones are available to T-Mobile users.
>>> True, but that'd be hard for T-Mo to market wouldn't it? "Buy your phone at AT&T for full price, then come to us
>>> for service! For a limited time, we'll pay the unlocking fee!"
>>> I wouldn't hold my breath...
>> T-mobile doesn't have to sell that feature at all. Many T-mobile users, including myself, purchased an AT&T phone to
>> use with T-mobile service.
> Same here, I buy my phones overseas usually and just pop in my TMo SIM. The whole concept of buying a phone from the
> carrier is really quite odd
Nope, not if the deal is good value.
> and pretty much limited to the USA & Canada.
Completely wrong.
> I don't buy lamps, bulbs and appliances from the electric company or my BBQ or water heater from the gas company, I
> don't buy plumbing fixtures from the water company, I don't buy TV's from the cable company or even phones from the
> phone company (since the Carterphone decision of 40 years ago anyway)
You didnt buy the phone, you rented it.
> so why would one buy a mobile phone from a mobile operator?
"M.L." <me@privacy.invalid> wrote in message
news:CSdXj.1649$l97.628@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
> The number of unlocked AT&T phones for sale on ebay will give you some
> idea of the popularity, in addition to the number of cellphone unlocking
> businesses on the Internet and ebay.
I'm not arguing about that- individual users are allowed plenty of
flexibility as to handset selection on AT&T and T-Mobile, as opposed to the
restrictive practices of Verizon and Sprint. The discussion was really
about churn and the reasons for it, or why customers choose particular
carriers over others, and I was making the case that lack of good high-end
handsets, and the features they offer, was one of the reasons T-Mo is less
popular than it is. Sure, I can buy an iPhone, or an unlocked Tilt or
whatever from AT&T or an N95 and put it them T-Mo, but without 3G, video
calling, mobile TV, etc., it's not really that advantageous to me to bother.
For example, I have a T-Mo MDA (HTC Wizard) now- what would, say, an 8525 or
a Tilt get me that I don't already have, when T-Mo doesn't offer compatible
3G?
> Much of the unlocking business is for used cellphones, and for those
> wanting to avoid getting a phone with a contract..
Until recently (Flexpay) a no-contract plan with T-Mo wasn't an option for
new customers- you could bring your shiny new N95 to them and they'd still
demand a 1-year contract. You poibt, however, is certainly valid with
respect to upgrades- unlocked/used phones can avoid a renewal if you're
replacing a broken or featureless phone.
> Sure, I can buy
> an iPhone, or an unlocked Tilt or whatever from AT&T or an N95 and
> put it them T-Mo, but without 3G, video calling, mobile TV, etc.,
> it's not really that advantageous to me to bother. For example, I
> have a T-Mo MDA (HTC Wizard) now- what would, say, an 8525 or a Tilt
> get me that I don't already have, when T-Mo doesn't offer compatible
> 3G?
In general, the unlocking community buys AT&T phones that can be flashed
into compatibility with T-mobile so that no features are lost in the
trade.
> In general, the unlocking community buys AT&T phones that can be flashed
into compatibility with T-mobile so that no features are lost in the trade.
T-Mobile USA's 3G, that just launched last week, is on a frequency
previously unused by any cellular company in the world (1700MHz). You can
unlock, reprogram, flash, or even puree any current AT&T phone all you like
and it won't work on T-Mo 3G.
> Ha. Verizon won't do anything like that, since they have never felt the need to
> compete on price.
Sure they do. They don't try to set the lowest price, but they can't
charge more either.
Look at "http://www.mobileburn.com/plans.jsp" and do some comparisons.
$40 buys you 500 minutes on Alltel, 450 minutes on AT&T, Sprint, and
Verizon (all with free MTM), and 600 minutes on T-Mobile (with no MTM).
$60 buys you 900 minutes on Alltel, AT&T, Sprint, and Verizon (all with
free MTM), and 1500 minutes on T-Mobile (with no MTM).
$80 buys you 1400 minutes on Alltel, 1350 minutes on AT&T, Sprint, and
Verizon (all with free MTM), (T-Mobile has no plan at that price point).
Only T-Mobile advertises a $30/month plan (though other carriers do have
them apparently).
Actually Verizon ends up being less than AT&T and Sprint (not sure about
Alltel) because their junk fees are much lower). They're probably being
stupid in this approach because they don't advertise the lower junk
fees. Few people check the junk fees when comparing prices. OTOH, you
don't get stuff like rollover on Verizon.
It goes beyond the price too. Look at free MTM. Verizon has, by far, the
largest number of retail customers (customers that you can call with
free MTM). While AT&T has more users of their network, giving them
bragging rights of "largest carrier"), they have a lot of MVNO customers
included, who don't qualify as in network (not sure if AT&T's own
prepaid customers can be called as in-network by a post paid AT&T customer).
If you're buying by price, and know about SERO, Sprint is the best deal,
as long as you buy a handset that you can force to roam on Verizon.
>> In general, the unlocking community buys AT&T phones that can be
>> flashed
> into compatibility with T-mobile so that no features are lost in the
> trade.
>
> T-Mobile USA's 3G, that just launched last week, is on a frequency
> previously unused by any cellular company in the world (1700MHz). You
> can
> unlock, reprogram, flash, or even puree any current AT&T phone all you
> like
> and it won't work on T-Mo 3G.
Indeed, so the unlocking community won't be buying AT&T phones for their
3G feature.
T-Mobile wins accolades from J.D. Power again
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