problem with Nokia LCD's?

Anyone else had problems with the LCD's in the Nokia "flip" models? Two
of mine have broken within 2 weeks of purchase. T-Mobile won't offer me
a warranty exchange since "it wasn't broken when you received it."

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

I don't understand T-Mobile's reluctance to do a warranty exchange
for you. I had no trouble at all with recently getting them to do a free
(except for $9.99 shipping) warranty exchange on a 8 month old RAZR.

--
John Richards


"Newbie" <not@chance> wrote in message news:Xns988951CCDC419notchance@66.150.105.47...
> Anyone else had problems with the LCD's in the Nokia "flip" models? Two
> of mine have broken within 2 weeks of purchase. T-Mobile won't offer me
> a warranty exchange since "it wasn't broken when you received it."

At 28 Nov 2006 12:11:04 +0000 Newbie wrote:
> Anyone else had problems with the LCD's in the Nokia "flip" models?
Two
> of mine have broken within 2 weeks of purchase. T-Mobile won't offer
me
> a warranty exchange since "it wasn't broken when you received it."

Do you mean broken as in "no longer functioning" or broken as in
"physically damaged/cracked?"

If the former, they'll exchange it, if the latter, you probably need to
have it serviced by Nokia (who will likely tell you it's uneconomical to
repair).

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in
news:ekj8pd$t0g$3@aioe.org:

> At 28 Nov 2006 12:11:04 +0000 Newbie wrote:
>> Anyone else had problems with the LCD's in the Nokia "flip" models?
> Two
>> of mine have broken within 2 weeks of purchase. T-Mobile won't offer
> me
>> a warranty exchange since "it wasn't broken when you received it."
>
> Do you mean broken as in "no longer functioning" or broken as in
> "physically damaged/cracked?"
>
> If the former, they'll exchange it, if the latter, you probably need
> to have it serviced by Nokia (who will likely tell you it's
> uneconomical to repair).
>
>
>

Thanks for the reply - here is the full story:

The display cracked when I opened the phone to make a call. The phone
remained fully functional, but I couldn't read below the lower third of
the display.

They told me it WAS covered by warranty since the handset was new, and
IF it didn't show any damage. Well, it wasn't damaged or abused, or I
wouldn't have called them. So I sent it in on their assurance they
would discuss it with me if they thought it wouldn't be an exchange.

After I sent in the phone, I heard nothing until they charged me for it
(more than I paid for it at the dealer, BTW). Now they have disposed of
the phone, so I can't prove it wasn't dinged in any way, and I can't
deal with Nokia directly anymore. T-Mobile keeps insisting that it must
have been my fault, since the display cracked. My position is: LCD's
don't crack - or shouldn't - under normal use unless there was a latent
defect. But they insist, and this is an actual quote, probably scripted
since two supervisors said the same thing, that "if the phone wasn't
damaged when you received it, there is no warranty".

It's frustrating. So I wondered if anyone else was experiencing such
failures - strengthen my case, if you will. I know Canon had trouble
with the LCD's in their camera lines. Of course, if you have any tips
for dealing with T-Mobile, I'll listen to that too

Cheers

At 29 Nov 2006 17:00:17 +0100 Newbie wrote:

> After I sent in the phone, I heard nothing until they charged me for it
> (more than I paid for it at the dealer, BTW). Now they have disposed of
> the phone, so I can't prove it wasn't dinged in any way, and I can't
> deal with Nokia directly anymore.

How much did they charge you, if you don't mind my asking?

If was around $100-125 that's Nokia's out-of-warranty repair fee, and I
think you're stuck. If they charged you $200 or so, I'd argue they sold
you a new phone, and you're entitled to the old one back for spare parts
or turn into modern art or whatever.

> T-Mobile keeps insisting that it must
> have been my fault, since the display cracked. My position is: LCD's
> don't crack - or shouldn't - under normal use unless there was a latent
> defect. But they insist, and this is an actual quote, probably scripted
> since two supervisors said the same thing, that "if the phone wasn't
> damaged when you received it, there is no warranty".


Most companies have a blanket "cracked LCDs are your fault" policy, since
they are fragile enough that you could crack one without any other part
of the phone showing damage.

I was very surprised when Casio repaired a camera under warranty for me
recently that had an LCD crack from, I'm guessing, the heat of a closed
car. I personally didn't think it was my fault, but they too have a "the
LCD's your problem" policy so I feared the worst.


> Of course, if you have any tips
> for dealing with T-Mobile, I'll listen to that too

Th only advice I have is to be nice when dealing with them- and think
outside the box. For example, the out-of-warranty policy is probably
inflexible so a refund is probably off the table, so you might attack the
problem this way: point out that you were charged for the repair/exchange
without the opportunity to decline the charge and get your broken phone
back (which still worked fine other than the LCD), which seems a little
unfair. Then sympathize that you understand that T-Mo is just passing
along whatever fee that Nokia charged them, but still it seems a little
unfair that you weren't able to refuse the repair like you could've had
you sent the phone directly to Nokia. (Now the "closer!") Since you
understand that they have no direct control over what Nokia does you
don't expect them to refund the repair fee, but as a courtesy for the
inconvenience is there anything they can do for you, like a courtesy
credit for two or three months' service?

I've never had the exact problem you've had, but in my tenure with T-Mo
I've managed to get a few concessions from them when things have gone
awry with politeness, charm, and reasonable (at least in my opinion)
expectations.

If he negotiated the Advanced Warranty Exchange, he had to agree on the
phone that TMOBILE descision is final and that he will not be able to get
the phone back from TMOBILE should they decide Out Of Warranty. This is
always read to a client on the phone when they persue using TMOBILEs
Advanced Warranty Exchange program.
Most do not understand that TMOBILE is doing nothing but a service to make a
customers life easier. If TMOBILE did not have this service, you would be
forved to deal with NOKIA direct and you wiould probably be without a phone
for 2-3 weeks or more.

TMOBILE is equipped with phones, normally referred to as feeder stock, to
make these advanced exchanges. NOKIA then trains very carefully TMOBILES
support personnel as to what will be covered under warranty and what will
not. Odds are, especially with a cracked LCD, the outcome would be the same
if dealing with NOKIA direct.

As to LCDs just plain breaking out of the blue, it is VERY unlikely. NOKIA
is not experiencing any type of exploding LCD issies or it would be all over
the internet. People stick their phones directly in their pockets, with
keys, change and other items and breal LCDS. Just the pressure of your pants
tighting up against the LCD say entering a car or getting up out of a chair
copuld do it. You just have to be careful

You didnt state if it was outside LCD or inside, Id be interested to hear.
As what Todd says, I see mphones all the time with Broken LCDs and the
phones are pristine. The outside condition of the phone is absolutely
irrelevant. Most broken LCDs are the result of direct pressure to the screen
anyway.

While you are unsderatndably unahppy, the outcome would probably be the same
regardless of how it went down, busted LCDs are just not covered and
rightfully so. Its like taking a car to a delership with the windshield
busted out, it just doesnt "happen".

..


"Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in message
news:eklk57$jk9$2@aioe.org...
> At 29 Nov 2006 17:00:17 +0100 Newbie wrote:
>
>> After I sent in the phone, I heard nothing until they charged me for it
>> (more than I paid for it at the dealer, BTW). Now they have disposed of
>> the phone, so I can't prove it wasn't dinged in any way, and I can't
>> deal with Nokia directly anymore.
>
> How much did they charge you, if you don't mind my asking?
>
> If was around $100-125 that's Nokia's out-of-warranty repair fee, and I
> think you're stuck. If they charged you $200 or so, I'd argue they sold
> you a new phone, and you're entitled to the old one back for spare parts
> or turn into modern art or whatever.
>
>> T-Mobile keeps insisting that it must
>> have been my fault, since the display cracked. My position is: LCD's
>> don't crack - or shouldn't - under normal use unless there was a latent
>> defect. But they insist, and this is an actual quote, probably scripted
>> since two supervisors said the same thing, that "if the phone wasn't
>> damaged when you received it, there is no warranty".
>
>
> Most companies have a blanket "cracked LCDs are your fault" policy, since
> they are fragile enough that you could crack one without any other part
> of the phone showing damage.
>
> I was very surprised when Casio repaired a camera under warranty for me
> recently that had an LCD crack from, I'm guessing, the heat of a closed
> car. I personally didn't think it was my fault, but they too have a "the
> LCD's your problem" policy so I feared the worst.
>
>
>> Of course, if you have any tips
>> for dealing with T-Mobile, I'll listen to that too
>
> Th only advice I have is to be nice when dealing with them- and think
> outside the box. For example, the out-of-warranty policy is probably
> inflexible so a refund is probably off the table, so you might attack the
> problem this way: point out that you were charged for the repair/exchange
> without the opportunity to decline the charge and get your broken phone
> back (which still worked fine other than the LCD), which seems a little
> unfair. Then sympathize that you understand that T-Mo is just passing
> along whatever fee that Nokia charged them, but still it seems a little
> unfair that you weren't able to refuse the repair like you could've had
> you sent the phone directly to Nokia. (Now the "closer!") Since you
> understand that they have no direct control over what Nokia does you
> don't expect them to refund the repair fee, but as a courtesy for the
> inconvenience is there anything they can do for you, like a courtesy
> credit for two or three months' service?
>
> I've never had the exact problem you've had, but in my tenure with T-Mo
> I've managed to get a few concessions from them when things have gone
> awry with politeness, charm, and reasonable (at least in my opinion)
> expectations.
>

At 30 Nov 2006 08:08:19 -0500 PDA Man wrote:
> If he negotiated the Advanced Warranty Exchange, he had to agree on the
> phone that TMOBILE descision is final and that he will not be able to
get
> the phone back from TMOBILE should they decide Out Of Warranty.

Is the PRICE for out-of-warranty repair stated at this time? If not,
that may run afoul of consumer protection laws in many states...

> This is
> always read to a client on the phone when they persue using TMOBILEs
> Advanced Warranty Exchange program.

I've had two handsets exchanged by T-Mo in my six-year tenure with them,
and you're right- I've been warned I'll be charged if the phone was
determined to be out-of-warranty. I don't remember if they told me how
much...

> Most do not understand that TMOBILE is doing nothing but a service to
make a
> customers life easier.

True, but many other carriers offer the same, or frankly, better service.
Cingular actually have techs in their larger stores. I've had a phone
repaired by Cingular while I waited in the showroom. Sprint, AFAIK, does
over the counter exchanges in their store, so warranty determination and
replacement happen instantly..

> If TMOBILE did not have this service, you would be
> forved to deal with NOKIA direct and you wiould probably be without a
phone
> for 2-3 weeks or more.

Nokia's turn around is 7-10 days (I've had phones repaired by them.)
>
> TMOBILE is equipped with phones, normally referred to as feeder stock,
to
> make these advanced exchanges. NOKIA then trains very carefully
TMOBILES
> support personnel as to what will be covered under warranty and what
will
> not. Odds are, especially with a cracked LCD, the outcome would be the
same
> if dealing with NOKIA direct.

No it wouldn't- that's the point! Nokia may have reached the same
conclusion (out of warranty) but they would have notified the customer
that repair would be $125 (or whatever) and the customer could've decided
whether or not to pay the $125 or take it back broken.

T-Mobile makes it a lottery- "send in the phone under warranty and we
might replace it for free, but might charge you $xxx. It's our call..."

> As to LCDs just plain breaking out of the blue, it is VERY unlikely.

True. Howevr, VERY unlikely means "possible." How does a company
determine if it was a stress from use, or a stress in manufacturing?

> NOKIA
> is not experiencing any type of exploding LCD issies or it would be all
over
> the internet. People stick their phones directly in their pockets, with
> keys, change and other items and breal LCDS.

How do your keys break the INNER LCD on a flip phone? If the outer LCD
was broken, I'd agree with you.

> Just the pressure of your pants
> tighting up against the LCD say entering a car or getting up out of a
chair
> copuld do it. You just have to be careful
>
> You didnt state if it was outside LCD or inside, Id be interested to
hear.

I believe he said inner, or at least I inferred that because he mentioned
seeing it when making a call. Inner certainly improves his case that it
was defect.

> While you are unsderatndably unahppy, the outcome would probably be the
same
> regardless of how it went down, busted LCDs are just not covered and
> rightfully so.

No, because if he dealt with Nokia he'd now have a broken, but useable,
phone and no repair charge on his bill. Then he could vote against Nokia
with his wallet and buy a different brand of phone.

> Its like taking a car to a delership with the windshield
> busted out, it just doesnt "happen".


Like with LCDs, yes it does, but it too is extremely rare, and usually
caused by improper installation.

> You didnt state if it was outside LCD or inside, Id be interested to
> hear. As what Todd says, I see mphones all the time with Broken LCDs
> and the phones are pristine. The outside condition of the phone is
> absolutely irrelevant. Most broken LCDs are the result of direct
> pressure to the screen anyway.
>
> While you are unsderatndably unahppy, the outcome would probably be
> the same regardless of how it went down, busted LCDs are just not
> covered and rightfully so. Its like taking a car to a delership with
> the windshield busted out, it just doesnt "happen".
>
> .
>
>
>
It was the crystal itself, not the bezel. I work for a company that
manufactures field service instruments with LCD's, and I agree - they're
pretty robust. So when we have a failure, the manufacturer often
replaces them to us N/C. But there is a "design envelope" - when you
construct the package that will support the LCD, you MUST take into
account the anticipated use, and expect that people will go beyond it.
As Todd said, you leave it in your car trunk in Arizona or Minnesota and
the temperature cycling is off the charts.

For a durable product, like we make, there was considerable engineering
into the display carriage. For a short life cycle (often 12 months or
less), dirt cheap, mass produced item, the market pressure to stuff a
large display into a flimsy package to hit a price point is tremendous.
As such, these products are almost by definition unsuitable for the
demands of their intended use. Canon owned up to this when they had
trouble with cracking displays in their SDXXX line of cameras, and
quietly began doing warranty exchanges.

I have found user forums on the net where people are complaining about
the Nokias, especially if the "flip" torques in any way as you open it.
Not all over the net like Canon, but a digital camera is what? 4 to 5x
the price of the phone, and there is a substantial expectation of
durability.

As for T-Mobile, I have been a customer since they were Omnipoint, and
their customer service has declined precipitously in the last 2 years. I
really don't want to start flaming them here, because it's not helpful
and who wants to read it, but as I have been a customer for 8+ years, I
would have thought that alone would have bought me some credibility. I
can't agree any longer with the statement that "they willing to think
outside the box".

Todd,
While I usually always agree you in most cases, Allow me to retort on your
response to my response regarding this LCD incident. (PULP FICTION rap!). I
also must say that NOKIA, while they may claim a 7-10 day repair time,
certainly is a not a guarantee or mthe norm. Figuring that a. You must send
them a phone first (TMOBILE sends you a phone right off the bat. Little if
any more then 48 hours downtime and less if your willing to pay for
overnite.b. As I stated, this a customer service program provided by
TMOBILE, you do not have to use it, you are explained EXACTLY how it works
in advance, it is certainly your choice. Now to support my claims, I am
fortunate (or unfortunate depending on how you look at it) to currently have
a NOKIA 6170b into NOKIA. The phone was shipped on 10-20. Was received in
TEXAS (where they asked it to be sent)on 11-03. They then decided they
wanted to send it to a new facility in Alabama. They sent it there where it
was received on 11-08. They then claimed to have lost my paperwork during
the transition and had no idea who or what that phone belonged to. Finally I
called to be informed that on 11-17 parts were ordered. A EMAIl last week
resulted in this
START EMAIL
Dear Ron,

Thank you for e-mailing the Nokia Care Contact Center.

We apologize for the delay in responding to your e-mail message and greatly
appreciate your patience.

We acknowledge your concern regarding the repair status of your Nokia 6170
phone.

Ron, due to the variables involved with expediting the repair of your Nokia
6170 phone, it would be best if we contacted you by phone directly. Please
reply with a specific timeframe (date & time) and contact number so we can
troubleshoot while we are on the phone together.

Or, if you prefer, please feel free to contact the Nokia Careline, and one
of our Customer Care Representatives will be happy to assist you. We are
open Monday through Friday 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. Eastern Standard Time
(EST), Saturday 10:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. EST (excluding Sundays and
Holidays). Our toll-free number is 1-888-NOKIA-2U (1-888-665-4228).

We regret any inconvenience that this may cause.

If you have any additional questions, please contact us. To ensure proper
handling, please continue to use the current subject line.

Thank you for choosing Nokia for your mobile needs.

Adrian
E-mail Specialist
END EMAIL

Well I contacted them, and they agreed that over 30 days on a current model
phone is rediculous (used unusual to be exact) I was told the matter would
be escalated-investigated, and I would hear back from a Escalation Team
member with 48 hours. It has now been 4 days and they have Home and Wireless
numbers. I have heard nothing. So, this is a perfect example of what can
happen, and is avoided by using TMOBILE advanced exchange. (Also, before
someone claims this is an isloated case, I recently (4 months ago) had a
similar experience with my NOKIA n770 Tablet. Sent to wrong place, didnt
understand that while it has a serial number it is NOT a wireless phone.
Took 3 attempts to explain it doesnt have a phone number. Was also a plain
nitemare. Completed repair turn around time was over a month also.(NOKIA,
like all manufacturers, is far from perfect, IMHO.)

Also your comments (and disagreement) regarding my statement that the end
result would probably still be the same, arent exactly fair. My point was
this, regarding the phone and the cracked LCD, odds are the phone would have
been denied warranty repair had it gone to NOKIA or to TMOBILE. Now, agreed,
the end result on how this matter was resolved certainly could have been
different with NOKIA. But he would have almost certainly have been denied
warranty repair. And that was my point, he would not have had a repair for
free. You stated that sending the phone into TMOBILE is akin to agambling, I
think you'll agree, to send any phone with a cracked or broken LCD to a
Carrier for repair or a manufacturer for repair, is certainly a gamble and
its a gamble that one should consider a huge longshot before it even leaves
their house.




"Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in message
news:ekn29i$j55$1@aioe.org...
> At 30 Nov 2006 08:08:19 -0500 PDA Man wrote:
>> If he negotiated the Advanced Warranty Exchange, he had to agree on the
>> phone that TMOBILE descision is final and that he will not be able to
> get
>> the phone back from TMOBILE should they decide Out Of Warranty.
>
> Is the PRICE for out-of-warranty repair stated at this time? If not,
> that may run afoul of consumer protection laws in many states...
>
>> This is
>> always read to a client on the phone when they persue using TMOBILEs
>> Advanced Warranty Exchange program.
>
> I've had two handsets exchanged by T-Mo in my six-year tenure with them,
> and you're right- I've been warned I'll be charged if the phone was
> determined to be out-of-warranty. I don't remember if they told me how
> much...
>
>> Most do not understand that TMOBILE is doing nothing but a service to
> make a
>> customers life easier.
>
> True, but many other carriers offer the same, or frankly, better service.
> Cingular actually have techs in their larger stores. I've had a phone
> repaired by Cingular while I waited in the showroom. Sprint, AFAIK, does
> over the counter exchanges in their store, so warranty determination and
> replacement happen instantly..
>
>> If TMOBILE did not have this service, you would be
>> forved to deal with NOKIA direct and you wiould probably be without a
> phone
>> for 2-3 weeks or more.
>
> Nokia's turn around is 7-10 days (I've had phones repaired by them.)
>>
>> TMOBILE is equipped with phones, normally referred to as feeder stock,
> to
>> make these advanced exchanges. NOKIA then trains very carefully
> TMOBILES
>> support personnel as to what will be covered under warranty and what
> will
>> not. Odds are, especially with a cracked LCD, the outcome would be the
> same
>> if dealing with NOKIA direct.
>
> No it wouldn't- that's the point! Nokia may have reached the same
> conclusion (out of warranty) but they would have notified the customer
> that repair would be $125 (or whatever) and the customer could've decided
> whether or not to pay the $125 or take it back broken.
>
> T-Mobile makes it a lottery- "send in the phone under warranty and we
> might replace it for free, but might charge you $xxx. It's our call..."
>
>> As to LCDs just plain breaking out of the blue, it is VERY unlikely.
>
> True. Howevr, VERY unlikely means "possible." How does a company
> determine if it was a stress from use, or a stress in manufacturing?
>
>> NOKIA
>> is not experiencing any type of exploding LCD issies or it would be all
> over
>> the internet. People stick their phones directly in their pockets, with
>> keys, change and other items and breal LCDS.
>
> How do your keys break the INNER LCD on a flip phone? If the outer LCD
> was broken, I'd agree with you.
>
>> Just the pressure of your pants
>> tighting up against the LCD say entering a car or getting up out of a
> chair
>> copuld do it. You just have to be careful
>>
>> You didnt state if it was outside LCD or inside, Id be interested to
> hear.
>
> I believe he said inner, or at least I inferred that because he mentioned
> seeing it when making a call. Inner certainly improves his case that it
> was defect.
>
>> While you are unsderatndably unahppy, the outcome would probably be the
> same
>> regardless of how it went down, busted LCDs are just not covered and
>> rightfully so.
>
> No, because if he dealt with Nokia he'd now have a broken, but useable,
> phone and no repair charge on his bill. Then he could vote against Nokia
> with his wallet and buy a different brand of phone.
>
>> Its like taking a car to a delership with the windshield
>> busted out, it just doesnt "happen".
>
>
> Like with LCDs, yes it does, but it too is extremely rare, and usually
> caused by improper installation.
>
>

At 02 Dec 2006 03:26:54 -0500 PDA Man wrote:
> Todd,
> While I usually always agree you in most cases, Allow me to retort on
your
> response to my response regarding this LCD incident. (PULP FICTION rap!).


Please do!

> I
> also must say that NOKIA, while they may claim a 7-10 day repair time,
> certainly is a not a guarantee or mthe norm.

I've had two under-warranty Nokas returned to me in that time frame, but
this was several years ago, when I was a Cingular TDMA customer.

> Figuring that a. You must send
> them a phone first (TMOBILE sends you a phone right off the bat. Little
if
> any more then 48 hours downtime and less if your willing to pay for
> overnite.b. As I stated, this a customer service program provided by
> TMOBILE, you do not have to use it, you are explained EXACTLY how it
works
> in advance, it is certainly your choice.

I agree- I'm just saying that you're doing so at your own risk. If
there's any question in your mind that the phone's warranty isn't going
to be honored, you might avoid the advanced exchange.

> <<Snip Nokia service nightmares times two!>>
>(NOKIA,
> like all manufacturers, is far from perfect, IMHO.)

Agreed. In my experience they like to play the "immersion" card a little
too often. I had a Nokia 7160 warranty claim denied for "water
immersion." The phone was never immersed, but forgetting that, it worked
electronically 100%, but the little roller wheel would pop out of the case.
Nokia could never adequately explain to me how water would cause that!

> Also your comments (and disagreement) regarding my statement that the
end
> result would probably still be the same, arent exactly fair. My point
was
> this, regarding the phone and the cracked LCD, odds are the phone would
have
> been denied warranty repair had it gone to NOKIA or to TMOBILE. Now,
agreed,
> the end result on how this matter was resolved certainly could have
been
> different with NOKIA. But he would have almost certainly have been
denied
> warranty repair.

I agree completely- my point was only that in this day and sge very few
phones are economical to repait out of warranty. Like with my 7160, I
told Nokia to send the broken phone back- it wasn't worth the $100 they
wanted to fix it. I replace
it with one from eBay for a fraction of that.

> And that was my point, he would not have had a repair for
> free.

I agree again- but he would get the chance to refuse the repair when
Nokia contacted him with the bad news. By taking an advanced exchange,
he loses the ability to refuse.

> You stated that sending the phone into TMOBILE is akin to agambling, I
> think you'll agree, to send any phone with a cracked or broken LCD to a
> Carrier for repair or a manufacturer for repair, is certainly a gamble
and
> its a gamble that one should consider a huge longshot before it even
leaves
> their house.

I certainly agree with that- again, however, if he had sent it to Nokia
directly, he could guarantee that he'd pay nothing- either they fix it
for free or don't fix it at all.

I'm not blaming T-Mo here, I'm just saying in some instances, advanced
exchange is not a good idea. It's worked as advertised twice for me in
my six years with T-Mo (actually the first was when it was still
Voicestream!)