iPhone negativity

On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:40:47 -0700, anonymousNetUser
<mickey@disney.com> wrote:

>Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old fart
>like me go to get get reliable info?


Right here. Ignore the Windoze, Mototola or Nokia cheerleaders.

In article <5qhm749f421f7bo02o8ptnh5fanco2935r@4ax.com>,
Ron <ronclifford@peoplepc.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:40:47 -0700, anonymousNetUser
> <mickey@disney.com> wrote:
>
> >Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old fart
> >like me go to get get reliable info?
>
>
> Right here. Ignore the Windoze, Mototola or Nokia cheerleaders.

You mean all three or four of them ;-)

You really need to use kill files in this group. And they use sock
puppets so you should learn how to filter their IP address.

As for accurate info on the iPhone just skip over the boring trolling
nonsense form Larry, the Bob, and their several sock puppets.

By ignoring the 3 or 4 jealous Wiindoze, Nokia and Motorola fan boys
you get the gist of the excitement the iPhone is creating in this group
and around the world.

On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 09:34:34 -0400, anon <anon@anon.com> wrote:

>In article <5qhm749f421f7bo02o8ptnh5fanco2935r@4ax.com>,
> Ron <ronclifford@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:40:47 -0700, anonymousNetUser
>> <mickey@disney.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old fart
>> >like me go to get get reliable info?
>>
>>
>> Right here. Ignore the Windoze, Mototola or Nokia cheerleaders.
>
>You mean all three or four of them ;-)
>
>You really need to use kill files in this group. And they use sock
>puppets so you should learn how to filter their IP address.


Most ISPs supply a dynamic IP, so that can change from day to day.

>
>As for accurate info on the iPhone just skip over the boring trolling
>nonsense form Larry, the Bob, and their several sock puppets.

Amen -

>
>By ignoring the 3 or 4 jealous Wiindoze, Nokia and Motorola fan boys
>you get the gist of the excitement the iPhone is creating in this group
>and around the world.

anon wrote:
> In article <5qhm749f421f7bo02o8ptnh5fanco2935r@4ax.com>,
> Ron <ronclifford@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:40:47 -0700, anonymousNetUser
>> <mickey@disney.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old
>>> fart like me go to get get reliable info?
>>
>>
>> Right here. Ignore the Windoze, Mototola or Nokia cheerleaders.
>
> You mean all three or four of them ;-)
>
> You really need to use kill files in this group. And they use sock
> puppets so you should learn how to filter their IP address.
>
> As for accurate info on the iPhone just skip over the boring trolling
> nonsense form Larry, the Bob, and their several sock puppets.
>
> By ignoring the 3 or 4 jealous Wiindoze, Nokia and Motorola fan boys
> you get the gist of the excitement the iPhone is creating in this
> group and around the world.
>
That last paragraph of yours would be the antithesis of what the OP is
trying to accomplish: that is, get "reliable info" about the iPhone. I
didn't read that he wanted "excitement" info from exuberant iPhone fans. I
think he wants "reliable info" which comes from reading BOTH sides. I'm not
a personal fan of Larry's particularly, but his points about iPhone's
deficits are generally accurate and should be strongly considered by those
seeking "reliable info" and should be taken into account in seeking a
viewpoint which is balanced against the over-exuberance of, say, an Oxford
or 4phun. Taken TOGETHER, one may gain a balanced picture.

At 14 Jul 2008 07:56:14 -0700 4phun wrote:

> Another way to farm the Internet for iPhone info is to set up an Alert
> Summary of iPhone news using a Goggle bot.

Or, rather than do that, you can just wait a few minutes and 4phun will cut
and paste them all here! ;-)

> Don't forget that Apple has a great multimedia web site devoted to
> passing on help on understanding their products and how to use them.


You certainly aren't going to get an unbiased account from the device's
manufacturer! (iPhone or otherwise...)

> Some of the others I see here merely like to spread FUD which in the
> case fo the iPhone stands for CRAP. You see those who spread it are
> full of it!


While much of the anti-iPhone noise her is certainly FUD, some of it is
legitimate critisicm. There are serious deficiencies in the iPhone, as
well as much to applaud. Prospective buyers should make sure they can live
with the former while enjoying the latter.


> FUD is another way of deceiving people by appealing to Fear
> Uncertainty and Doubt. It is fascinating to see what they come up with
> IMHO.


Yes it is- however it's equally fascinating, at least to me, to see long-
used computing and smartphone features and functions heralded as cutting-
edge because Apple is involved, like Oxy's continued assertion that VoIP on
the iPhone is the "end of cellular."

Despite the fact that VoIP isn't the "end of cellular" anyway, he ignores
the fact that handheld VoIP phones- most of which are cheaper than an
iPhone and DON'T require a two-year cellular contract to purchase have been
around for years, and haven't threatened cellular yet. (And never will,
unless WiFi becomes far more ubiquitous and handles handoffs between APs
seamlessly.)

In message <MbHek.29465$co7.25986@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com> "Flathead"
<flathead@none.com> wrote:

>"anonymousNetUser" <mickey@disney.com> wrote in message
>news:R0zek.20713$1L1.737@newsfe15.phx...
>> Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old fart
>> like me go to get get reliable info?
>
>Check out a TILT

How would that get him info about the iPhone?

(I'm a TILT owner myself, but I'm still curious)

In article <487b852a$0$7329$607ed4bc@cv.net>,
"Carl" <crothman@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:

> I'm not a personal fan of Larry's particularly, but his points about iPhone's
> deficits are generally accurate

Larry is a troll and self admitted criminal. He has been proven to be
about 90% incorrect.

> seeking "reliable info" and should be taken into account in seeking a
> viewpoint which is balanced against the over-exuberance of, say, an Oxford
> or 4phun. Taken TOGETHER, one may gain a balanced picture.

This is the Fox News "fair and balanced" argument and it makes no sense.
The truth is NOT balanced, it is the truth.

For the most part,Oxford and 4Phun post facts. They should NOT be taken
together with Larry's opinions and falsehoods.

Larry wrote:
> Oxford <apony@pasture.com> wrote in news:apony-F4FE62.21100913072008
> @news.qwest.net:
>
>> you can always ask me, I don't hold any bias either way.
>>
>> what is your question...

Don't know where you got this list of questions... They're not ones I
care about.

> Will it play Flash movies?

Don't care.


> Will it play embedded RealVideo from BBC?

Don't care.

> Will it play Divx movies?

Don't care.

> Can I change the battery if it goes dead during the day, like my sellphone?

Doesn't matter. The phone was a gift. Got a car charger and a extra
cable to charge it from my computer at work. Don't need to change the
battery.

> Does it have an external memory card slot so I can swap movies and music
> around at my whim?

I don't listen to music. If I want music, I'll go to a concert or a nice
show. And I can't watch movies at work without getting fired.

> Can I cut text and pictures out of a webpage and save them to its word
> processor or notepad and store them on its memory for later?

Aren't webpages copyrighted works? If so, to cut and paste stuff from
them is plagiarism at best and copyright infringement or theft at worst.

> Can I cut text out of a webpage and email it as an attachment to my
> girlfriend's computer?

No girlfriend. Wife's gone. RIP Dearest.

> Can I send my girlfriend an SMS on Verizon to have sex with her at lunch?

Please, a little decency... I eat at lunch. There's a time and place for
other activities.

> Can I install Skype for Mobile or Skype for sellphones so I can chat with
> my friends on Skype in Siberia, or will I still have to carry my
> Playstation PSP to call them? What about other VoIP systems like Gizmo?

Don't have a clue what this stuff is.

> Will it record video of my kids waterskiiing for the first time?

Kids bought me a video tape for that. And they are way past the "kids"
stage. All married--unfortunately none have given me any grandkids.

> Can I download music, movies, ebooks, PDF files from usenet or peer-2-peer
> and play them from the memory?

I buy books and read them at my leisure. Why would I want to read them
on this tiny screen?

> Can I watch international TV on a stand-alone player in full screen mode?

That's what I've got cable for.

> ....valid questions....eh?

No.

I'm middle-aged. I just want a phone that makes calls (mostly for
emergency use, heaven forbid I have an accident or heart attack or
something), and has a few toys to show off to my friends. The Maps thing
is nice, but just about everything is too small to read. How the heck do
you make the text size larger?

Carl wrote:
> anonymousNetUser wrote:
>> Since this newsgroup seems to hate the iPhone, where could an old fart
>> like me go to get get reliable info?
>>
> Actually, I think you're misreading the newsgroup and way misjudging its
> value. As you can tell from this thread alone, there are strong advoates of,
> and strong naysayers of, the iPhone here. You can not get BETTER
> information than from a group where BOTH sides are offered; where debate
> rages freely. Your apparent "dream" newsgroup where everyone loves the
> iPhone would never be a source of reliable information.

They may be knowledgeable as you say, but do they have to be so nasty
about it? A little decency never hurt anyone. That's what's wrong with
this country now. No one cares about anyone but themselves apparently.

> Your "knowledge" will come from reading everything that's posted here, for
> as long as you can take it. :-) Then make your own judgments from what you
> read.

Been making my own judgements for as long as I've lived. And taking
responsibility for my own mistakes. Been doing it too long it's habit now.

> I'm not (yet) an iPhone user, nor am I an AT&T customer, but I come here to
> learn as much about the iPhone as possible.
>
>

At 14 Jul 2008 18:26:58 -0400 anon wrote:

> > I'm not a personal fan of Larry's particularly, but his points about
iPhone's
> > deficits are generally accurate
>
> Larry is a troll and self admitted criminal. He has been proven to be
> about 90% incorrect.


While some of his opinions, and the conclusions he draws, are questionable
(though often humorous), most of his FACTS are correct.

But I'm not at all surprised by your statement- there seems to be problem
with several posters here distinguishing between opinion and fact.

Sure, Larry was wrong about the GPS chip in the iPhone Jr., (based on the
early teardowns referenced here) but he admitted his error when more
accurate info surfaced.

Even in today's "visit to the AT&T store" post, for example, he never said
the iPhone's WiFi _couldn't_ be shut off- just that neither he nor the
salesperson couldn't find the menu to do it, (then he launched into a
typical, and ridiculous, Larry conspiracy theory as to why AT&T wouldn't
want you to shut it off.) So, incorrect conclusions and ridiculous
opinions? Yes. Incorrect facts? No.


> > seeking "reliable info" and should be taken into account in seeking a
> > viewpoint which is balanced against the over-exuberance of, say, an
Oxford
> > or 4phun. Taken TOGETHER, one may gain a balanced picture.
>
> This is the Fox News "fair and balanced" argument and it makes no sense.
> The truth is NOT balanced, it is the truth.

Agreed, if we're talking about "facts," yes. Again, however, the
difficulty here seems to be identifying the difference between facts and
opinion (just like on Fox News, ironically!)

The balance of OPINION from multiple viewpoints, however, can be very
valuable, much like movie reviews- if Roger Ebert likes most of the same
movies as I did, and for the same reasons I did, I can likely trust his
opinions of movies I haven't seen yet. Virtually every reliable
(professional journalist) critique of the iPhone agrees it's an excellent
device with a few serious flaws. Has Oxford ever acknowledged a flaw? No,
he dismisses them either as advantages ("Flash eats batteries,")
unnecessary (voice dialing isn't needed since you shouldn't operate a
cellphone in a car) or inconsequential in some Apple's/Jobs' Masterplanned
Future Reality (3G is obsolete/unnecessary because mass adoption of the
iPhone will drive the development of ubiquitous free nationwide WiFi. Yes,
Oxford actually said that after the iPhone 1.0 release. I couldn't make
this stuff up!)

> For the most part,Oxford and 4Phun post facts.

Only By coincidence- they _mostly_ simply repost iPhone-favorable blog
entries or news articles, often without any attribution, and often without
regard to the reliabilty of the original source. (CNet, for example, might
generally be considered more reliable than some generic consumer blogger.
Without attributions, we can't gauge reliability.) Oxford, in particular,
generally editorializes after the quoted blog/news item, usually without
any clear indication (other than the natural change in tone from
journalistic to lunatic) of what was a quote, and what were his additional
coments. (Of course, why should we expect the use of quotation marks from
a guy who hasn't mastered capitalization yet.) This of course, gives him
the perfect alibi when he posts absolute stupidity ("don't blame me, blame
the author") that anyone with his claimed knowledge or credentials should
have seen was incorrect from the get go.


> They should NOT be taken
> together with Larry's opinions and falsehoods.


Really? Tell us some of Larry's "falsehoods" (as opposed to his crazy
opinions.)

Let's review, OTOH, some of Oxford's recent "facts" off the top of my head:

He answered "yes" to a question about Skype (via Fring) and cut-and-paste
being available on the iPhone (without qualifying that only jailbroken
phones can run those apps- an important caviat, wouldn't you agree?) then
explained (in a different post) how the new app store makes jailbreaking
iPhone 3Gs unnecessary (huh?). He was also corrected by TWO different
developers today about his "facts" pertaining to the SDK ans app development.
And, of course, there's nothing wrong with being wrong- one normally
apologizes for the error, or thanks the replier for the correction, and
everyone moves on. But not Oxford- he ignores any corrections and/or
belittles the poster with a quip like "I only post facts" or "you don't
understand how Apple products/modern technology works..." That damages
credibility.

Oxford's, and to a lesser extent, 4phun's "opinions" are frankly no crazier
than Larry's- VoIP on iPhones will be the end of cellular, Apple will have
60% cellular marketshare in 5 years, Nokia and/or Verizon will be out of
business in a couple of years, or that GPS built into the iPhone will put
Garmin, etc. out of business. Compared to that, Larry's crap about Mossad
evesdropping on our phone calls, and the Moon landings being faked, seem
almost plausible...

The REAL difference, however, is we know, from prior posts and context,
EXACTLY who Larry is- a good ol' boy 60+ year-old curmudgeon, and a ham
radio operator who plays with computers and electronics as a hobby and also
to help with his organ repair biz.

Who, though, is Oxford? We know that he claims to be an Apple
"expert/insider" with hundreds of "clients," many of whom he's "advised" to
buy iPhones. He lives in a "technologically advanced" city of 210,000, yet
posts from Qwest's Minneapolis region- (frankly, if you live in a Qwest area,
how "technologically advanced" can it be? Qwest only operates in 14
midwestern/mountain states. I'm on Qwest in Denver- it's not exactly
Silicon Valley here!) His last/only "wireless phone" before the iPhone was
a Macbook running VoIP! He has "met with/talked to Steve Jobs" but he
never gives any specific credentials, (or denies the fake credentials we've
invented for him: stockboy/salesperson in a Twin Cities Apple Store, which
could actually fit ALL of his claims if you think about it!) ;-)

Larry doesn't pretend to have any more expertise than that of a ham and a
consumer, while Ox tells us he's "smarter than 90% of people," an "expert"
in the computer industry and laments that the rest of us can't "understand
how things work" like he does.

Take Larry's posts for what they're worth, but Oxford has clearly
demonstrated that he has zero credibility on matters pertaining to wireless-
he's failed to grasp basic concepts of cellular, and is VERY ignorant of
non-Apple devices. He knows the features of the iPhone very well- I'll
give him that, but without the context of knowing what the competition
offers, he doesn't know in what areas the iPhone lags, and instead just
spouts rhetoric like "it's the most technologically advanced phone ever
built" or "other phones will all work like this in 17 years..."

He's a trolling clown, and his buffoonery makes all of his posts suspect,
which is unfortunate because he could've been a useful resource about the
iPhone here if he'd proven himself to be reliable. Sadly, finding facts in
his rants is a needle/haystack situation, made all the more regretful since
some of his needles are actually worth finding.