Why is iPhone winning SO important?

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in
news:g5qauq$va$1@aioe.org:

> At 18 Jul 2008 14:18:46 +0000 Larry wrote:
>
>> > I'd like a smart-phone with WiFi. That limits me
>> > two two choices from Verizon. Neither has a good browser like the
>> > iPhone, but actually what's more important to me is the ability to
>> > create, edit, and store Word and Excel documents.
>>
>> None of the Sellphone carriers are going to be selling anything that
>> does more than email, SMS and webpages they can control and RESELL.
>
> Here we go again....
>

Yep. Why do you defend them like you do? You know goddamned well none
of them ever got over selling bandwidth by the byte.

Right today they are trying to scram the FCC's initiative to provide
free wireless internet across the country. The news is on phonescoop.

>
>> If they let
>> you have word processing, database access, big spreadsheets of
>> important numbers, that will use BANDWIDTH, which Sellphone companies
>> now oppose because they cannot sell it for a dollar a megabyte any
>> more. So, they simply don't sell any device that uses serious
>> bandwidth.
>
> You do realize that a very good number of smartphones include the
> ability to edit and create documents out of the box, right? The WinMo
> phones do, as do most Palm-based phones.

And they all have a keyboard you can type 80wpm on because they support
Bluetooth HID for the portable keyboards....AFTER the carrier gets done
screwing around with the hobbling, right? Or, are you saying we're
going to do word processing on that little thumb keyboard at 5wpm??

>
> Unrestricted access to POP/IMAP e-mail is also a function of
> smartphones.

I said they all support email....providing, of course, it doesn't have
an 8MB MP3 attached to it you want to play on the phone....

>
>> They put useless
>> little browsers on the phones that won't really display a real
>> webpage BECAUSE a real webpage, with all the spam Flash movies, giant
>> moving GIF files, ad after ad after ad of huge color pictures and
>> embedded JAVA/javascript USES BANDWIDTH. That's why WAP was
>> invented. It uses no bandwidth and has no ads to suck up the
>> sellphone revenue.
>
> WAP was invented as a workable web solution when phones had 128x128
> pixel monochrome displays and connected to the web at 14.4kbps.
> Plenty of phones have decent browsers, although most not up to iPhone
> qualit - IE Mobile on WinMo, Blazer on Palm, Blackbetrry, Opera's Mini
> and Mobile, etc.
>
So? Why are we STILL renting out WAP browsers like the shit on my ROKR
Z6m Alltel wants $4/mo to look at? Seems like those days on 14.4Kbps
should be over by now!

>
>> The only mobile solution, so far until WiMax or something similar
> emerges,
>> is a tethered device, cable or bluetooth, to get the computer out of
>> the clutches of the sellphone company bean counters...or is that byte
>> counters??
>
>
> How does that help? Most carrier restrictions are at the network
> level- blocked ports, download limits, etc. Most carriers (Sprint,
> Verizon, AT&T) also charge extra for tethering.

Because, once the COMPUTER is out of the clutches of the greedy bastards
that run sellphone companies, the COMPUTER cannot be hobbled up by them.
No, I'm not talking about the HOBBLING done by Verizon as you are forced
to install their goddamned hobbleware just to get an aircard to work,
either. I'm talking about a computer that requires NOTHING from the
carriers to be installed for it to function. Those computers are free
of hobbleware so you can use any program that will run on their OS, even
the full version if you like, creating monster files to transfer.

>
>
>> Sellphone carriers have been very successful in thwarting this
>> end run around their control by removing any tethering firmware and
>> any Bluetooth interconnecting protocols, such as DUN, from the
>> phone's capabilities.
>
>
> No, SOME CARRIERS. Others do not remove capabilities, or at least do
> not on high-end phones.
>
> And, as you've been told dozens of times, GSM carriers don't restrict
> the handsets you can use to their own branded handsets. You can buy
> uncrippled handsets, never touched by the carrier's "enhancements" or
> sofware, directly from manufacturers like Nokia, Motorola or HTC and
> use them on GSM networks.

I don't want to buy "uncrippled handsets", as you put it, off ebay or
from some hacker. The handsets the CARRIERS sell are hobbled
up...except for Alltel, but they've cured that problem when the assholes
at Verizon take over and ruin it.

>
>> Verizon seems the worst hobbler in the den. Most users
>> aren't savvy enough to hack the phones to restore functions, but for
>> the few who do we'll let the system keep a sharp eye out for
>> "abusers" and convince the dumbest amoung us that if they see an
>> "abuser" using
> bandwidth
>> he's, somehow, going to trash their own service, a tactic that seems
>> to work very well.
>>
>> $20 to $60 for email and webpages is very profitable. You can sell
>> the same bandwidth to a thousand people because they get really bored
>> with
> the
>> webpages fast and TURN IT OFF, exactly what the carriers want.
>>
>> They don't have a good browser for a REASON, not because they're not
>> capable of running it. Hell, I'm running Firefox 3 for Linux on the
> Nokia
>> N800, plugins and all!
>
> Good for you. For the gazillionth time, look at the celular world
> beyond your own carrier and it isn't as restrictive as you think.
>
> My handset (an AT&T Tilt unlocked on T-Mobile) can edit documents,
> send unlimited e-mai , has four different browsers on it including one
> that does flash, and, beside "webpage spam and e-mail" handles NNTP
> (usenet,) video and audio streaming, and runs both Skype and SIP VoIP-
> all on the device, all without tethering. All on a handset sold by a
> big, bad, "sellular" company.

Good, I'll email you some music tonight and we'll see how well it sounds
on your Tilt. Oh, wait, you have a HACKED Tilt on T-mobile, EXACTLY the
kind of hacking the average sellphone user has no idea how to
accomplish.

Before you hacked into it, would the Tilt on ATT:

1 - Tether to any Bluetooth device using BT DUN?

2 - Stream audio from Shoutcast?

3 - Stream video from Sky News?

4 - Run Skype BEFORE you hacked into it?

Horseshit.

4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:4af08449-8a2b-4e5d-8eb4-
f3b1ea97cad7@x36g2000prg.googlegroups.com:

> I saw a digg that you can now do office docs on the iPhone last night.
> Search DIGG for the latest.
>
> Also there is a mobile client now for cloud computing with the iPhone,
> I forget the name of it but there is a big Microsoft project and the
> iPhone just got a mobile client for that yesterday
>
>

Please post the URLs of these websites, not just conjecture. Let us read
them for ourselves....

"Carl" <crothman@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote in news:4880b54c$0$20914
$607ed4bc@cv.net:

> http://blackberrythunder.net/

I can see it now....booting up to its Vcast billboard screen where the
Blackberry menu used to be.

Too bad about the Verizon mistake.

At 19 Jul 2008 00:44:52 +0000 Larry wrote:

> Yep. Why do you defend them like you do? You know goddamned well none
> of them ever got over selling bandwidth by the byte.


Again, all of the carriers offer unlimted "on phone" data plans at fairly
reasonable prices. My T-Mo "unlimited" data is a whopping $6/month. Hard
to complain about that.

> Right today they are trying to scram the FCC's initiative to provide
> free wireless internet across the country. The news is on phonescoop.


Anyone who wants to bid on that spectrum is free to do so.


> > You do realize that a very good number of smartphones include the
> > ability to edit and create documents out of the box, right? The WinMo
> > phones do, as do most Palm-based phones.
>
> And they all have a keyboard you can type 80wpm on because they support
> Bluetooth HID for the portable keyboards....AFTER the carrier gets done
> screwing around with the hobbling, right? Or, are you saying we're
> going to do word processing on that little thumb keyboard at 5wpm??


For starters, why does my carrier care how fast I can type an offline
document on my phone?

But yes, bluetooth keyboards work fine on WinMo devices. As do the older
IR keyboars, and some devices accept "hardwired" keyboards. I don't use
one because I want les stuff o schlep, not more, but many WinMo folks use
the "Stowaway." >


> > Unrestricted access to POP/IMAP e-mail is also a function of
> > smartphones.
>
> I said they all support email....providing, of course, it doesn't have
> an 8MB MP3 attached to it you want to play on the phone....


Actually 8MB attachments are ine, though at T-Mo's EDGE speeds the largest
I ever sent personally was about 5MB. (It took nearly a half-hour!)

> >> They put useless
> >> little browsers on the phones that won't really display a real
> >> webpage BECAUSE a real webpage, with all the spam Flash movies, giant
> >> moving GIF files, ad after ad after ad of huge color pictures and
> >> embedded JAVA/javascript USES BANDWIDTH. That's why WAP was
> >> invented. It uses no bandwidth and has no ads to suck up the
> >> sellphone revenue.
> >
> > WAP was invented as a workable web solution when phones had 128x128
> > pixel monochrome displays and connected to the web at 14.4kbps.
> > Plenty of phones have decent browsers, although most not up to iPhone
> > qualit - IE Mobile on WinMo, Blazer on Palm, Blackbetrry, Opera's Mini
> > and Mobile, etc.
> >
> So? Why are we STILL renting out WAP browsers like the shit on my ROKR
> Z6m Alltel wants $4/mo to look at? Seems like those days on 14.4Kbps
> should be over by now!


They are. The limitations today are screen size, not bandwidth. If your
carrier sold phones that supported Java instead of BREW you'd be using
Opera Mini and viewing "real" web pages on your Motorola.


> >> The only mobile solution, so far until WiMax or something similar
> > emerges,
> >> is a tethered device, cable or bluetooth, to get the computer out of
> >> the clutches of the sellphone company bean counters...or is that byte
> >> counters??
> >
> >
> > How does that help? Most carrier restrictions are at the network
> > level- blocked ports, download limits, etc. Most carriers (Sprint,
> > Verizon, AT&T) also charge extra for tethering.
>
> Because, once the COMPUTER is out of the clutches of the greedy bastards
> that run sellphone companies, the COMPUTER cannot be hobbled up by them.

And again, the "real" smartphones are "computers" and are not crippled . I
use remote desktop on my AT&T "hobbled" phone, as well as VoIP (over WiFi-
EDGE is too slow for outgoing voice, but I can hear the Skype ECHO test
lady fine, but she can't "hear" me!)

> No, I'm not talking about the HOBBLING done by Verizon as you are forced
> to install their goddamned hobbleware just to get an aircard to work,
> either. I'm talking about a computer that requires NOTHING from the
> carriers to be installed for it to function. Those computers are free
> of hobbleware so you can use any program that will run on their OS, even
> the full version if you like, creating monster files to transfer.


Yes. I know. I have one- my AT&T Tilt.

> >> Sellphone carriers have been very successful in thwarting this
> >> end run around their control by removing any tethering firmware and
> >> any Bluetooth interconnecting protocols, such as DUN, from the
> >> phone's capabilities.
> >
> >
> > No, SOME CARRIERS. Others do not remove capabilities, or at least do
> > not on high-end phones.
> >
> > And, as you've been told dozens of times, GSM carriers don't restrict
> > the handsets you can use to their own branded handsets. You can buy
> > uncrippled handsets, never touched by the carrier's "enhancements" or
> > sofware, directly from manufacturers like Nokia, Motorola or HTC and
> > use them on GSM networks.
>
> I don't want to buy "uncrippled handsets", as you put it, off ebay or
> from some hacker. The handsets the CARRIERS sell are hobbled
> up...except for Alltel,

....and AT&T, T-Mobile and Sprint (at least with WinMo- even the WinMo
phones' internal GPS units are available to 3rd party software.)

> but they've cured that problem when the assholes
> at Verizon take over and ruin it.


If that happens, vote with your wallet and change carriers.


> > Good for you. For the gazillionth time, look at the celular world
> > beyond your own carrier and it isn't as restrictive as you think.
> >
> > My handset (an AT&T Tilt unlocked on T-Mobile) can edit documents,
> > send unlimited e-mai , has four different browsers on it including one
> > that does flash, and, beside "webpage spam and e-mail" handles NNTP
> > (usenet,) video and audio streaming, and runs both Skype and SIP VoIP-
> > all on the device, all without tethering. All on a handset sold by a
> > big, bad, "sellular" company.
>
> Good, I'll email you some music tonight and we'll see how well it sounds
> on your Tilt. Oh, wait, you have a HACKED Tilt on T-mobile, EXACTLY the
> kind of hacking the average sellphone user has no idea how to
> accomplish.


Not true- I've intentionally avoided "hacking" the Tilt to see what it's
capable of in it's virgin state (I've only had it a couple of weeks -I
bought it second-hand from an AT&T user who unlocked it with a secret
hacker's tool: he called AT&T and asked them for the unlock code! AT&T
willingly SIM unlocks any phone _except the iPhone_ after 90 days of service.
Keep in mind SIM unlocking isn't "hacking"- it simply removes the "lock"
preventing non-AT&T SIMs from working in the phone. It doesn't change the
software on the phone.

I did upgrade the original AT&T firmware to the most recent AT&T (February
08) firmware, (obtained from AT&T- not an evil underground hacker group.
Much to my relief, it didn't re-SIMlock the phone!)6


> Before you hacked into it, would the Tilt on ATT:
>
> 1 - Tether to any Bluetooth device using BT DUN?

Actually by BT PAN ("Personal Area Network") rather than DUN, but not
because of AT&T- Microsoft switched from using the "BT DUN" profiles of WM5
and below, to "BT PAN" profiles with WM6 and up- now WinMo phones act like
network adapters (like a cable/DSL modem) instead of dialup modems.
You connect a PC via USB or BT, select the internet connection access point
(in my case "T-Mobile Data") on the phone and hit "connect."

IIRC, Sprint does remove BT PAN from their WM6 devices, rplacing it with
Sprint hobbleware designed to "catch" tethering. Supposedly BT PAN is not
"detectable" as tethering, since there's no DUN connection. From the
carrier's POV, the phone is using the data, not the tethered device.

Hackers have pulled the old BT DUN app fom WM5 devices and mde it
available, but I have no need for it- PAN is easier- it's plug and play-
you don't need to know the dialup number, usernames, passwords, etc. and
setup a DUN profile on the PC. It's like plugging in an ethernet cord into
a router- the PC gets an IP address from the phone and is online.


> 2 - Stream audio from Shoutcast?


Is installing 3rd-party software considered "hacking" in your mind? I'm
not sure if Windows Media Player Mobile supports Shoutcast's streaming MP3s
or not- when I tried it just now (for the first time), it ran a freeware
Media player called TCPMP I'd already installed to play DiVX. Whether
that's because WMP couldn't handle it, or just because TCPMP "hijacked" the
Shoutcast .pls extension when installed, I couldn't tell you, but I suspect
WMP Mobile can't do it (because by default TCPMP only hijacks media types
WMP can't play, so tapping a .wav, .mp3 or .wm* file still runs WMP unless
you explicitly tell TCPMP to be the default player for those as well .).

Some streams listed at Tuned.mobi stream in WMP on my Tilt, some stream in
TCPMP, depending on the stream type.

> 3 - Stream video from Sky News?


Not, with the included software- I just tried it in IE Mobile and was told
it requires Flash 9 apparently, and the WinMo version of Flash never got
past 7.

It worked fine, howeve, in an alternative 3rd-party browser called
"Skyfire" I use that's still in beta and handles flash video well- YouTube,
Hulu, TV network websites, etc.
> 4 - Run Skype BEFORE you hacked into it?

Again, is downloading and installing Skype from skype.com considered
"hacking" to yo? That's all it takes. Period.

> Horseshit.

I doubt I'll convince you when you've got a pre-conceived notion to
believe, but all is as I've said.

I'm not saying AT&T is lily white and pure- while I can install any 3rd-
party VoIP app on the phone that I wish, including Skype, SJPhone, NetTalk,
X-lite, etc., the lackluster "Internet Calling" VoIP app MS offers as an
"option" with WM6 is conspicuously absent. (To be fair, however, it's not
intended as an end-user app- it has no "options" or "setup" menu- it's
designed to be preconfigured by a VoIP provider via an .xml file in the off
chance a SIP VoIP provider like Gizmo or Vonage wanted to sell a WinMo-
based VoIP phone/PDA.)

MS' Remote Desktop app is also missing (no great loss- various 3rd party
apps do that better as well, including LogMeIn.)

I will add Internet Calling back in one of these days (the hackers have
pulled it out of other devices and bundled it as an installable "3rd party"
app, with a configurator that writes the .xml file the app reads.) Even
with the hacker's help, MS' VoIP app is not not as configurable as other
"full service" VoIP apps, but it's integrated into the GSM phone app-
incoming VoIP calls ring through the phone's "normal" phone dialer just
like a GSM call.

Again, this is why I'm surprised that Nokia didn't quickly throw together
an "N820" with GSM built-in: the GSM marketplace can and does support
"unhobbled" devices, and a GSM/3G-based N8xx tablet would've made a great
iPhone alternative last year until Nokia got around to building something
new from ground-up.