iPhone software update 2.1 this weekend (iTunes 8 today)

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:

> > all good points, it will happen in time.
>
> So which is it, Oxy? "there is never much need to copy and paste" or "it
> will happen in time"?

ah, can't you read? translation: the iphone isn't fully flushed out yet,
so in areas where copying data was traditionally important, the os &
apps will improve to allow symbolic links where "copying and pasting"
could be currently useful.

"Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:

> Lack of MMS support certainly is Apple's fault, no argument from me, but
> AT&T certainly could take an initiative and make the end-user experience
> better for THEIR customers. Especially considering all the (wasted) time
> and effort upgrading their EDGE network last year to support their
> "Flagship" non-3G phone, and setting up the backend system for Visual
> Voicemail (gee- right there is a "hidden" push email account available on
> every iPhone that AT&T could redirect MMSes to, after converting them to
> email!)

well, it certainly isn't related to anyone's fault. it's mainly because
apple hasn't yet released their iChat software for the iphone. you need
to understand they are more about focus, than adding a bunch of obsolete
things that they would have to remove in the coming years. learn about
good software development Todd.

> > Now I'll wait to hear that this is AT&T doing and not apple which I'll say
> > Total BS In advance.
>
> Agreed. Larry will call it a $ellphone con$piracy to make customers pay
> more for data plans, and Oxford and 4Phun will attempt to convince us that
> MMS is an ancient technology not worthy of consideration on such a "modern"
> device.

MMS is ancient technology :) we all know that. If you want to go old
school, how about simply add MMS to your iphone? nobody is stopping you.

MobileChat is what you are looking for.

http://mobilech.at/

"Oxford" <apony@pasture.com> wrote in message
news:apony-918C7A.18440212092008@news.qwest.net...
> "Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
>
>> Lack of MMS support certainly is Apple's fault, no argument from me, but
>> AT&T certainly could take an initiative and make the end-user experience
>> better for THEIR customers. Especially considering all the (wasted) time
>> and effort upgrading their EDGE network last year to support their
>> "Flagship" non-3G phone, and setting up the backend system for Visual
>> Voicemail (gee- right there is a "hidden" push email account available on
>> every iPhone that AT&T could redirect MMSes to, after converting them to
>> email!)
>
> well, it certainly isn't related to anyone's fault. it's mainly because
> apple hasn't yet released their iChat software for the iphone.

What on God's green Earth does iChat have to do with MMS?

> you need
> to understand they are more about focus, than adding a bunch of obsolete
> things that they would have to remove in the coming years. learn about
> good software development Todd.

Good software development allows for "backwards compatibility" when it
doesn't hurt the system. MMS is a simple application, like email, that
wouldn't "harm" the iPhone's performance in any way, but allow messaging
compatibility with "dumbphone" owners. It's a standard feature of cellular
phones in this day and age. The iPhone is supposedly first and foremost a
phone (although given it's feature set, I'd argue it's first and foremost an
iPod.) Currently the ONLY phone in AT&T's lineup not to offer MMS
capability.


>> > Now I'll wait to hear that this is AT&T doing and not apple which I'll
>> > say
>> > Total BS In advance.
>>
>> Agreed. Larry will call it a $ellphone con$piracy to make customers pay
>> more for data plans, and Oxford and 4Phun will attempt to convince us
>> that
>> MMS is an ancient technology not worthy of consideration on such a
>> "modern"
>> device.
>
> MMS is ancient technology :) we all know that. If you want to go old
> school, how about simply add MMS to your iphone? nobody is stopping you.
>
> MobileChat is what you are looking for.
>
> http://mobilech.at/

No, MobileChat is an IM program. Do you know what MMS is? No wonder why
you don't even miss it... Your last "phone" was a MacBook running iChat
over hijacked WiFi...

"Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:

> > well, it certainly isn't related to anyone's fault. it's mainly because
> > apple hasn't yet released their iChat software for the iphone.
>
> What on God's green Earth does iChat have to do with MMS?

ah, it's the OSX app that allows all sorts of messaging, file sharing,
etc. It's how people will get MMS functionality in time.

Learn Todd, Learn...

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/ichat.html

> > you need
> > to understand they are more about focus, than adding a bunch of obsolete
> > things that they would have to remove in the coming years. learn about
> > good software development Todd.
>
> Good software development allows for "backwards compatibility" when it
> doesn't hurt the system.

It also takes into account forward compatibility. Why would Apple add a
separate MMS apps when it's going to be replaced by iChat? It wouldn't
make sense.

> MMS is a simple application, like email, that
> wouldn't "harm" the iPhone's performance in any way, but allow messaging
> compatibility with "dumbphone" owners. It's a standard feature of cellular
> phones in this day and age. The iPhone is supposedly first and foremost a
> phone (although given it's feature set, I'd argue it's first and foremost an
> iPod.) Currently the ONLY phone in AT&T's lineup not to offer MMS
> capability.

It has MMS capability if you want it. But yes currently we are waiting
for iChat to come to the iphone for this capability. Could be a year,
could be 3, it doesn't matter since you can always add this feature to
your iphone via the Apps Store.

> > MMS is ancient technology :) we all know that. If you want to go old
> > school, how about simply add MMS to your iphone? nobody is stopping you.
> >
> > MobileChat is what you are looking for.
> >
> > http://mobilech.at/
>
> No, MobileChat is an IM program. Do you know what MMS is? No wonder why
> you don't even miss it... Your last "phone" was a MacBook running iChat
> over hijacked WiFi...

No, go to the iTunes Store... search for MMS... then read about
MobileChat... it's just a more modern implementation of MMS. traditional
MMS is dead, sorry!

Learn Todd, Learn...

At 12 Sep 2008 18:31:33 -0600 Oxford wrote:

> > So which is it, Oxy? "there is never much need to copy and paste" or
"it
> > will happen in time"?
>
> ah, can't you read? translation: the iphone isn't fully flushed out yet,
> so in areas where copying data was traditionally important, the os &
> apps will improve to allow symbolic links where "copying and pasting"
> could be currently useful.


So you're suggesting some sort of artificial intelligence "guessing" what
data I'll want to copy will replace traditional copy-and-paste?

Bold prediction, sir... Wouldn't cut and paste be simpler? Maybe you
could just make a "scissors" motion on the multi-touch? Or maybe swipe,
lift, swipe, lift, swipe (in a "dotted line" pattern?) ;-)

At 12 Sep 2008 19:32:25 -0600 Oxford wrote:

> > What on God's green Earth does iChat have to do with MMS?
>
> ah, it's the OSX app that allows all sorts of messaging, file sharing,
> etc. It's how people will get MMS functionality in time.
>
> Learn Todd, Learn...
>
> http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/ichat.html

Learn what? That if you stick a small "i" in the name of a garden variety
IM program it's supposed to seem impressive?

Why am I not surprised that, as usual, you miss the point. MMS is NOT
important for iPhone-to-iPhone "chatting." It's important as a lowest-
common-denominator file transfer method between dumbphones. Not every
iPhone owner communicates exclusively with other iPhone owners.



> > Good software development allows for "backwards compatibility" when it
> > doesn't hurt the system.
>
> It also takes into account forward compatibility. Why would Apple add a
> separate MMS apps when it's going to be replaced by iChat? It wouldn't
> make sense.

Why? The iPhone supports text messaging, despite the fact that it's
arguably redundant with a full email client on the phone.

Secondly, read this slowly: iChat is an IM program, not an MMS client.

> > MMS is a simple application, like email, that
> > wouldn't "harm" the iPhone's performance in any way, but allow
messaging
> > compatibility with "dumbphone" owners. It's a standard feature of
cellular
> > phones in this day and age. The iPhone is supposedly first and
foremost a
> > phone (although given it's feature set, I'd argue it's first and
foremost an
> > iPod.) Currently the ONLY phone in AT&T's lineup not to offer MMS
> > capability.
>
> It has MMS capability if you want it. But yes currently we are waiting
> for iChat to come to the iphone for this capability. Could be a year,
> could be 3, it doesn't matter since you can always add this feature to
> your iphone via the Apps Store.

No, it doesn't- that half-baked app you linked is not an MMS app and can't
even do IM without having to email you that you have an instant message
waiting due to the background-running prohibition.


> > > http://mobilech.at/
> >
> > No, MobileChat is an IM program. Do you know what MMS is? No wonder
why
> > you don't even miss it... Your last "phone" was a MacBook running
iChat
> > over hijacked WiFi...
>
> No, go to the iTunes Store... search for MMS... then read about
> MobileChat... it's just a more modern implementation of MMS. traditional
> MMS is dead, sorry!
>
> Learn Todd, Learn...

It's an IM program. And a mediocre one at that (Apple's "no-multitasking"
fault, not the developer's)

MMS, a service used by one BILLION cellular phones worldwide, is a de facto
standard, despite a stubborn six million fruit-logoed holdouts.

"Oxford" <apony@pasture.com> wrote in message
news:apony-95A3E8.19322412092008@news.qwest.net...
> "Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
>
>> > well, it certainly isn't related to anyone's fault. it's mainly because
>> > apple hasn't yet released their iChat software for the iphone.
>>
>> What on God's green Earth does iChat have to do with MMS?
>
> ah, it's the OSX app that allows all sorts of messaging, file sharing,
> etc. It's how people will get MMS functionality in time.
>
> Learn Todd, Learn...
>
> http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/ichat.html
>
>> > you need
>> > to understand they are more about focus, than adding a bunch of
>> > obsolete
>> > things that they would have to remove in the coming years. learn about
>> > good software development Todd.
>>
>> Good software development allows for "backwards compatibility" when it
>> doesn't hurt the system.
>
> It also takes into account forward compatibility. Why would Apple add a
> separate MMS apps when it's going to be replaced by iChat? It wouldn't
> make sense.
>
>> MMS is a simple application, like email, that
>> wouldn't "harm" the iPhone's performance in any way, but allow messaging
>> compatibility with "dumbphone" owners. It's a standard feature of
>> cellular
>> phones in this day and age. The iPhone is supposedly first and foremost
>> a
>> phone (although given it's feature set, I'd argue it's first and foremost
>> an
>> iPod.) Currently the ONLY phone in AT&T's lineup not to offer MMS
>> capability.
>
> It has MMS capability if you want it. But yes currently we are waiting
> for iChat to come to the iphone for this capability. Could be a year,
> could be 3, it doesn't matter since you can always add this feature to
> your iphone via the Apps Store.
>
>> > MMS is ancient technology :) we all know that. If you want to go old
>> > school, how about simply add MMS to your iphone? nobody is stopping
>> > you.
>> >
>> > MobileChat is what you are looking for.
>> >
>> > http://mobilech.at/
>>
>> No, MobileChat is an IM program. Do you know what MMS is? No wonder why
>> you don't even miss it... Your last "phone" was a MacBook running iChat
>> over hijacked WiFi...
>
> No, go to the iTunes Store... search for MMS... then read about
> MobileChat... it's just a more modern implementation of MMS. traditional
> MMS is dead, sorry!
>
> Learn Todd, Learn...



If your going to try to push an app, maybe you should read the reviews.
Many reviews say it sucks. Other's say it's dependent on the company's
server which is down quite often. Etc, Etc.

It's not, repeat, not a replacement for MMS.

Learn Oxturd, Learn.

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote in
news:gaff7e$ls4$1@aioe.org:

> At 12 Sep 2008 18:31:33 -0600 Oxford wrote:
>
>> > So which is it, Oxy? "there is never much need to copy and paste"
>> > or
> "it
>> > will happen in time"?
>>
>> ah, can't you read? translation: the iphone isn't fully flushed out
>> yet, so in areas where copying data was traditionally important, the
>> os & apps will improve to allow symbolic links where "copying and
>> pasting" could be currently useful.
>
>
> So you're suggesting some sort of artificial intelligence "guessing"
> what data I'll want to copy will replace traditional copy-and-paste?
>
> Bold prediction, sir... Wouldn't cut and paste be simpler? Maybe you
> could just make a "scissors" motion on the multi-touch? Or maybe
> swipe, lift, swipe, lift, swipe (in a "dotted line" pattern?) ;-)
>
>
>
>

I think a real possibility of why cut/paste was not implemented is the
poor finger pointing of the iphone. I can't imagine trying to highlight
JUST a URL on a crowded webpage using my fat finger as a pointing device
due to the lack of an accurate stylus. How could you get ONLY the
letters you want in a long URL without including other letters, even
lines, even magnified way out. Magnified out, the end of the line is
way off screen on a url like:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....set=ISO-8859-1
&id=pcat17071&type=page&st=fm+transmitter&sc=Globa l&cp=1&nrp=15
&sp=&qp=&list=n&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960

To avoid the customer backlash, they simply decided to keep them from
trying....which may not have been a bad decision when they were trying
to sell it as an iPod and web browser, not a computer device.

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote in
news:gaff7i$ls4$2@aioe.org:

> MMS, a service used by one BILLION cellular phones worldwide, is a de
> facto standard, despite a stubborn six million fruit-logoed holdouts.
>
>
>

There's several MMS apps for the Maemo tablets, and they aren't even
sellphones!

At 13 Sep 2008 16:45:09 +0000 Larry wrote:

> > Wouldn't cut and paste be simpler? Maybe you
> > could just make a "scissors" motion on the multi-touch? Or maybe
> > swipe, lift, swipe, lift, swipe (in a "dotted line" pattern?) ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> I think a real possibility of why cut/paste was not implemented is the
> poor finger pointing of the iphone. I can't imagine trying to highlight
> JUST a URL on a crowded webpage using my fat finger as a pointing device
> due to the lack of an accurate stylus. How could you get ONLY the
> letters you want in a long URL without including other letters, even
> lines, even magnified way out. Magnified out, the end of the line is
> way off screen on a url like:
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....set=ISO-8859-1
> &id=pcat17071&type=page&st=fm+transmitter&sc=Globa l&cp=1&nrp=15
> &sp=&qp=&list=n&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960
>
> To avoid the customer backlash, they simply decided to keep them from
> trying....which may not have been a bad decision when they were trying
> to sell it as an iPod and web browser, not a computer device.


The way I understood it was that the cut-and-paste gestures were too
similar to the pinch and zoom (spread) gestures.

The iPhone's multi-touch interface was developed primarily from a company
called Fingerworks that Apple bought a few years ago, that developed a
touchpad that you used multitouch gestures on in lieu of a keyboard and
mouse.

The gestures for cut, paste, and other editing functions are described here:
http://www.fingerworks.com/gesture_guide_editing.html

To implement cut-and-paste, Apple could just do something like put a "cut-
and-paste mode" icon somewhere on the display (or invent a gesture to enter
cut-and-paste mode,) to temporarily disable zooming so you could tap to
enter cut-and-paste mode, swipe from start to end point, then "pinch" to
cut/copy, and "spread" to paste.