Prepaid deals?

Bob Fry wrote:

> Not the same for us. Let's say our niece goes back home leaving the
> phone with 2 months and 200 minutes still available. We would use her
> phone to make our long distance calls (our own phones cost real money
> to do that), using up the minutes. And we could start using the full
> 200 minutes in the last week without having some disappear every
> month.

It's not a big deal, but that's not a very economical use of Net10
minutes. For the lowest cost you'd use something like TalkLoop.com or
Onesuite.com for long distance (2-2.5¢ per minute, $10 every six months
minimum), and something like PagePlus for prepaid cellular ($10 every
four months) or T-Mobile ($10 per year after the first $100).

>>>>> "SMS" == SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> writes:

SMS> Net10 (part of Tracfone) is not a good deal in prepaid. The
SMS> best option for keeping a spare phone for visitors is either
SMS> T-Mobile or PagePlus.

PagePlus international rates:
Canada, Mexico, and Guam: $0.34/Minute

Ouch! We call Mexico often enough on the cell phone; while one can
get a calling card, it's desirable to have a low rate direct from the
phone. Net10 charges only 15c/min to call Mexico.

T-Mobile?
Canada and Mexico $0.50 per minute additional

Way bad! I haven't seen rip-off rates like that for years. And their
domestic rates suck too: $25 buys you just 130 mins; I would get 250
mins with Net10.

The take-home message? Think about your probably usage pattern and
look at several cellular servers. There's enough variation out there
it pays to look around. Still haven't seen anything much better for
our usage pattern than Net10.

--
I could dance with you till the cows come home, on second thought I'll
dance with the cows till you come home.
Groucho Marx

Bob Fry wrote:

> The take-home message? Think about your probably usage pattern and
> look at several cellular servers. There's enough variation out there
> it pays to look around. Still haven't seen anything much better for
> our usage pattern than Net10.

T-Mobile is 10¢/minute. PagePlus is between 7¢ and 12¢/minute.

The problem with Net10 is that it's not good for an "occasional use"
phone because of the high minimums you end up paying. While on PagePlus
it's $2.50/month ($10 every four months) and on T-Mobile it's
$0.83/month (after the initial cost of going "Gold"), on Net10 it's
$15/month minimum to keep it active. I could see keeping a spare
PagePlus phone around for visitors, as it's only $30/year, but at
$180/year for Net10 it isn't really practical.

I'd rather pay 7¢/minute on PagePlus, then use OneSuite for calls to
places like Mexico and Canada, as it's much less expensive overall, even
if you connect via the PagePlus phone to call Mexico and Canada. Of
course usually you'll be able to use your landline and not waste
wireless minutes.

My "take-home message" is to look at the big picture when comparing
rates. Net10 is okay for someone that will actually use 150 minutes per
month making calls that they would normally make, rather than trying to
use up the minutes making calls that are more economical to make from a
landline.

At 17 Sep 2007 11:19:48 -0700 SMS wrote:

> Net10 (part of Tracfone) is not a good deal in prepaid. The best
> option for keeping a spare phone for visitors is either T-Mobile
> or PagePlus.

Net10/Tracfone does allow multple activations/deactivations with the
same phone, however, IIRC. How's PP with regards to that? T-Mo can
be a pain, because they'll generally require that you buy a new
SIM/starter kit each time.

For occasional "visiting family member" use, Net10/TracFone might
work well- you could activate, let the visitor use it, let it expire
when they leave, and put it away until next time.

Each prepaid provider has it's strengths and weaknesses.

Perhaps unrelated to the OP's needs,( unless the visitor is a "Chatty
Cathy") but an interesting prepaid development nonetheless, T-Mo's
new hybrid "flexpay plans" are going to be huge, IMHO, they let you
select any (non-promotional) regular monthly T-Mo plan, including any
add-ons (like unlimited data or text buckets) with no contracts or
credit checks. You buy a phone or SIM, prepay the first month's
service plus add-ons and away you go. It's like a better version of
AT&T's GoPhone. Now a "temporary" user will be able to get a regular
plan, with M2M, free nights and weekends, roaming in Canada and Mexico,
data, etc. just like a contract customer.


--

"I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003

>>>>> "SMS" == SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> writes:

SMS> T-Mobile is 10¢/minute. PagePlus is between 7¢ and
SMS> 12¢/minute.

10c/min...if you buy $100 of airtime, 1000 mins, that doesn't expire
for a year. That's fine if you use the phone a little continously,
but that's not the pattern for our guest phone. And the international
rates are simply a straight-forward ripoff.

For our usage Net10 is great: cheap domestic and international rates,
easy to understand, let it expire and reactivate it when the next
guest comes.

Again, for anybody following this, check several providers and compare
them to your expected usage. As you've seen, there's enough variation
to make some providers better than others *for your pattern of use*.
Statements that Provider X is the best--period--are bogus.

--
Once when I was in Hawaii, on the island of Kauai, I met a
mysterious old stranger. He said he was about to die and wanted
to tell someone about the treasure. I said, "Okay, as long as
it's not a long story. Some of us have a plane to catch, you
know." He started telling his story, about the treasure and his
life and all, and I thought: "This story isn't too long." But
then, he kept going, and I started thinking, "Uh-oh, this story
is getting long." But then the story was over, and I said to
myself: "You know, that story wasn't too long after all." I
forget what the story was about, but there was a good movie on
the plane. It was a little long, though.
- Jack Handey

Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 17 Sep 2007 11:19:48 -0700 SMS wrote:
>
>> Net10 (part of Tracfone) is not a good deal in prepaid. The best
>> option for keeping a spare phone for visitors is either T-Mobile
>> or PagePlus.
>
> Net10/Tracfone does allow multple activations/deactivations with the
> same phone, however, IIRC. How's PP with regards to that?

You can reactivate a phone that has been deactivated (not sure how long
after the four months they deactivate it), but they don't let you get
the activation deal over and over again on the same ESN. The activation
normally costs $5, and includes $15 worth of airtime. For someone that
doesn't care about getting a new phone number every four months, this
would be a great deal! Normally you'll have the same phone number as
before if there isn't a huge lapse in terms of months.

> T-Mo can
> be a pain, because they'll generally require that you buy a new
> SIM/starter kit each time.

True, but if you go "Gold" it only costs you 83¢/month to keep it
active. I'm a big believer in trying to minimize recurring costs, even
at the cost of a larger initial expense.

> For occasional "visiting family member" use, Net10/TracFone might
> work well- you could activate, let the visitor use it, let it expire
> when they leave, and put it away until next time.

As you could with PagePlus. With T-Mobile it would be costly to follow
that model because of the initial cost of the SIM, so it would be better
to spend $10/year keeping the account open.

> Each prepaid provider has it's strengths and weaknesses.
>
> Perhaps unrelated to the OP's needs,( unless the visitor is a "Chatty
> Cathy") but an interesting prepaid development nonetheless, T-Mo's
> new hybrid "flexpay plans" are going to be huge, IMHO, they let you
> select any (non-promotional) regular monthly T-Mo plan, including any
> add-ons (like unlimited data or text buckets) with no contracts or
> credit checks. You buy a phone or SIM, prepay the first month's
> service plus add-ons and away you go. It's like a better version of
> AT&T's GoPhone. Now a "temporary" user will be able to get a regular
> plan, with M2M, free nights and weekends, roaming in Canada and Mexico,
> data, etc. just like a contract customer.

Yes, though obviously that's not the customer they had in mind! They've
found a way to minimize their risk of someone canceling and keeping the
phone by not subsidizing the handset. In exchange for no contract and no
free or cheap phone you don't have a contract. Since most postpaid users
already have their bills charged to their credit cards as well, the
difference is minimal.

Someone said that you _must_ buy a phone from T-Mobile, they won't just
sell you a SIM card for flexpay, but I don't know if this is true or
not. If this is true, then that keeps people from being temporary users.
T-Mobile has almost no information about Flexpay on their website. See
"http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1209563" for information.

Bob Fry wrote:
>>>>>> "SMS" == SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> writes:
>
> SMS> T-Mobile is 10¢/minute. PagePlus is between 7¢ and
> SMS> 12¢/minute.
>
> 10c/min...if you buy $100 of airtime, 1000 mins, that doesn't expire
> for a year. That's fine if you use the phone a little continously,
> but that's not the pattern for our guest phone. And the international
> rates are simply a straight-forward ripoff.

Yes, there is the initial $100 to get the 1 year expiration (even
subsequent airtime purchases of $10 then have a 1 year expiration). You
then have an active phone for $10/year or 83¢/month. After seven months
of Net10 you've spend $105. It's always important to look at the big
picture. If you can afford it, it's better to make the initial payment
in order to lower your recurring costs. However with T-Mobile there is a
"gotcha" in that their coverage area is much poorer than AT&T's coverage
area, which in turn is poorer than Verizon's coverage area.

International rates are not really an issue because you can always use a
dial-around service. It's actually _more_ convenient because a) you can
use the same dial-around service from home, cell, or office, b) you
don't need a PIN number with services like OneSuite or TalkLoop, c) you
can store frequently called numbers and dial them with one button, d)
it's less expensive than using international service from the cellular
provider, e) it's less expensive for all countries, even though someone
like Net10 has reasonable rates for North America. What you do is to
program one cell phone auto-dial number to call the long-distance
provider. When they answer, you press one button to call whomever you're
calling.

I've converted many people in South Florida (where my mother lives) over
to T-Mobile prepaid (mainly from AT&T/Cingular where they lost their
good deals on AT&T Wireless when Cingular took them over and began
dismantling the TDMA network) and to OneSuite and TalkLoop (because
BellSouth/AT&T doesn't have good long-distance plans).

> For our usage Net10 is great: cheap domestic and international rates,
> easy to understand, let it expire and reactivate it when the next
> guest comes.
>
> Again, for anybody following this, check several providers and compare
> them to your expected usage. As you've seen, there's enough variation
> to make some providers better than others *for your pattern of use*.
> Statements that Provider X is the best--period--are bogus.

Strong words. But the bottom line is that there's no debate that someone
like PagePlus is both less expensive, and provides far better coverage,
than Net10. It's true that to achieve low international rates to Mexico,
with PagePlus you'd have to push two keys, while with Net10 you could
press one key. In that sense, Net10 had an advantage.

Always look at the big picture, both on prepaid and postpaid:

-Initial Cost
-Minimum Recurring Cost
-Price per minute for domestic calls
-Network Coverage
-Price per minute for international calls direct from cell phone, versus
international calls using a long distance service
-Check the table at "http://www.cellguru.net/prepaid_compare.htm". Pay
especially close attention to "Lowest Monthly Cost" and "System."

At 18 Sep 2007 06:39:31 -0700 SMS wrote:

> In exchange for no contract and no free or cheap phone you don't
> have a contract.


Right- which, frankly, is how it should be with all carriers. I
understand the contract in return for subsidy, but the idea of a
contract just to get service with our own equipment is ludicrous!

> Someone said that you _must_ buy a phone from T-Mobile, they won't
> just sell you a SIM card for flexpay, but I don't know if this is
> true or not.

Not really- from what I understand, that "restriction" is often
placed by independent dealers because the commissions for selling
flexpay are very very low, understandably. Dealers figure that they
can at least get the retail markup on an unsubsidized handset for
their trouble. Corporate stores will sell SIMs for use on flexpay.

Some on HoFo have reported salespeople at corporate stores have even
directed people to buy prepaid handsets elsewhere, (since a corp
store selling a discounted prepaid kit for flexpay is verboten) and
come back to the corporate store to activate it on flexpay.

> If this is true, then that keeps people from being temporary users.
> T-Mobile has almost no information about Flexpay on their website.

True- flexpay is supposed to be a backup to Contract plans- something
they offer a customer if he/she fails a credit check (the same thing
prepaid is supposed to be for!) However, like with their prepaid
plans, T-Mo has created an option good enough for some customers to
choose over traditional contract service! Anyone with good credit
who wants flexpay can ask for it, or simply refuse a credit check.

Flexpay does have five disadvantages vs. contract service I can think
of:

1) Uses the prepaid coverage map rather than postpaid, which might be
a problem in portions of the midwest.

2) No call forwarding option

3) There's a $5/month administrative fee vs. contract service (though
this is waived if you use auto-pay.)

4) International roaming is limited to Canada/Mexico (given T-Mo's
high roaming rates, I'm not sure how much of a hardship this is!
Many would opt for local prepaid SIMs anyway.

Promotional rate plans (plans that require a 2-year contract signup
or extension, like $39.99/month for 1000 anytime + free N/W) are
unavailable.

Even with those restrictions , however, it's a much closer
committment-free parallel to contract service than any other carrier
offers at this time.


--

"I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003

catalpa wrote:
> "Cubit" <no@not.not> wrote in message
> news:kQWGi.177$6p6.35@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net.. .
>> A friend of mine is being forced into the AT&T TDMA switch, but he wants
>> instead to go to a prepaid service.
>>
>> So far, he has found a service that would charge a monthly fee to his
>> prepaid card, even if he doesn't make any calls. This is not acceptable.
>>
>> Would anyone like to recommend a prepaid service that doesn't cheat, and
>> may have cheap phones on ebay?
>
> Compare prepay cell services at http://www.cellguru.net/prepaid_compare.htm
> . As a very low monthly usage user I went with PagePlus (uses Verizon
> network). I bought a new Verizon compatible phone on Ebay for less than
> $40.00 and purchased the activation on Ebay for $5.00. Just have to buy
> $10.00 of airtime every 120 days after the first 120 days. $30.00 a year for
> cell service works for me. An active cell phone user would have to compare
> the available plans with their expected monthly usage.

PagePlus charges a 50¢ per month fee. However it is much cheaper than
the other prepaid services, with far better coverage than any of the GSM
prepaid carriers (T-Mobile, TracFone/Net10, SpeakOut, etc), and much
better than any of the Sprint based CDMA prepaid carriers (Virgin,
Disney, etc.).

The 50¢ per month charge is really lost in the noise, as PagePlus's
rates are so much lower than the other prepaid carriers.

However if the person insists on no monthly fee, and doesn't mind paying
more overall, and doesn't mind poorer coverage, then he (or she) should
look into T-Mobile prepaid or Net10 prepaid.

I can't find any scenario based on usage where anything would be cheaper
than PagePlus, since the minutes are as low as 7.1¢. T-Mobile could be
cheaper after the $100 to go "Gold" is amortized over five years or so.

I pay $32/month for 300 peak minutes, 1000 MTM minutes, and unlimited
off-peak, but rarely does the combination exceed the 450 minutes that
$32 would buy on PagePlus. I keep Verizon because I do international
roaming, which PagePlus can't do.