As is typical - Oxford is WRONG

"Henry Flam" <hflam@telus.net> stated in post
hflam-DEBF64.04592102122007@news.telus.net on 12/2/07 5:59 AM:

> In article <C3773F5B.9BD45%CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com>,
> Snit <CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>
>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> stated in post
>> elmop-29194D.18261601122007@nntp1.usenetserver.com on 12/1/07 4:26 PM:
>>
>>> In article
>>> <linuxlovesosx-6574E3.13495201122007@mpls-nnrp-04.inet.qwest.net>,
>>> Oxford <linuxlovesosx@superart.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> CozmicDebris <isheforreal> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> He pre-announces everything. Pre-market hype is what Apple is all about.
>>>>> Hype the hell out of a product before the consumer gets it in their hands
>>>>> and realizes what a piece of crap it is- that's the Apple way.
>>>>
>>>> he does? that would be news if so. actually he doesn't say a word until
>>>> he is ready to announce. Then yes, for good reason the press and the
>>>> public hypes the advent of the next great product coming into society.
>>>>
>>>> But Apple? they remain very quite except a press release and the 20
>>>> minute announcement.
>>>>
>>>> gosh, you sure don't know much about how apple works do you...
>>>
>>> No, no one knows how Apple works. All we see is what they do.
>>>
>>> And what did Steve Jobs do? He announced the iPhone way, WAY before it
>>> was available.
>>>
>>> Let me use plain English to explain to you what Cozmic said:
>>>
>>> "He announces everything far before its availability. Pre-availability
>>> hype is what Apple is all about. Hype the hell out of a product before
>>> the consumer gets it in his hands and realizes what a piece of crap it
>>> is--that's the Apple way."
>>>
>>> Do you disagree that that's what Cozmic said?
>>>
>> Apple *sometimes* announces things quite a bit in advance but often does
>> not. And when they announce something they *usually* deliver what they
>> promise, or very near so (unlike, say, Microsoft).
>
> Apple announced the iPhone long time in advance, because of regulatory
> reasons, and then delivered. Microsoft announced Oragami, where is it?
> We are all waiting with bated breath for it...

It folded?


--
If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://snipurl.com/BurdenOfProof)

At 02 Dec 2007 12:59:20 +0000 Henry Flam wrote:

> Apple announced the iPhone long time in advance, because of regulatory
> reasons, and then delivered

True- the FCC website would've "leaked" the info, so it reasonable to show
it off in advance.

> Microsoft announced Oragami, where is it?
> We are all waiting with bated breath for it...


It launched on schedule, and is known as the "Ultra-Mobile PC" orUMPC,
available from Sony, Samsung and others.

"Origami" was a code name for the UMPC platform- not a product- there was
never to be a Microsoft-branded "Origami"-model of device available.

In article <fiv223$khq$1@aioe.org>,
Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:

> At 02 Dec 2007 12:59:20 +0000 Henry Flam wrote:
>
> > Apple announced the iPhone long time in advance, because of regulatory
> > reasons, and then delivered
>
> True- the FCC website would've "leaked" the info, so it reasonable to show
> it off in advance.
>
> > Microsoft announced Oragami, where is it?
> > We are all waiting with bated breath for it...
>
>
> It launched on schedule, and is known as the "Ultra-Mobile PC" orUMPC,
> available from Sony, Samsung and others.
>
> "Origami" was a code name for the UMPC platform- not a product- there was
> never to be a Microsoft-branded "Origami"-model of device available.

So if I want the Origami, that Microsoft was announcing in their ad, I
can have it. Damn, I should sue MS for not stating that they were
blowing vapor. It sure looked like there was going to be a such a
product on the market. I'm going to run out and get myself a lawyer and
begin a class action suit.

At 02 Dec 2007 23:57:42 +0000 Henry Flam wrote:

> > "Origami" was a code name for the UMPC platform- not a product- there
> > was never to be a Microsoft-branded "Origami"-model of device
> > available.
>
> So if I want the Origami, that Microsoft was announcing in their ad, I
> can have it.

The was no "the Origami" to have- as I said, Origami was/isa PLATFORM with
minimum specs and software, like a "Pocket PC" was not a model, but a
specification the Compaq, HP, Casio, etc. built devices to meet.

> Damn, I should sue MS for not stating that they were
> blowing vapor. It sure looked like there was going to be a such a
> product on the market.

There are. Follow the link below to see some of them...

> I'm going to run out and get myself a lawyer and
> begin a class action suit.

Or, just go here, follow the link to a manufacturer and buy one:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pro...c/default.mspx

Again, Microsoft isn't a computer manufacturer, they're a software vendor.
The "origami" project was a code name for the UMPC platform, of which a
variety of products are available from a variety of manufacturers.


Sheesh.

In article <elmop-29194D.18261601122007@nntp1.usenetserver.com>, Elmo
P. Shagnasty <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

> Hype the hell out of a product before
> the consumer gets it in his hands and realizes what a piece of crap it
> is--that's the Apple way."
>
> Do you disagree that that's what Cozmic said?


I'll disagree with the content: "Cozmic" couldn't be more wrong.
Apple customers are typically not just pleased, but enthusiastic.
The very opposite of what "cozmic" is claiming.

Sure, there are many companies that hype a product that doesn't live up
to promises -- and Apple is notable because it is NOT one of them.

"CozmicDebris" <isheforreal> wrote in message
news:Xns99FBC887C3428isheforreal@216.196.97.142...
> Mitch <mitch@hawaii.rr> wrote in news:031220071631214785%mitch@hawaii.rr:
>
>> In article <elmop-29194D.18261601122007@nntp1.usenetserver.com>, Elmo
>> P. Shagnasty <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hype the hell out of a product before
>>> the consumer gets it in his hands and realizes what a piece of crap it
>>> is--that's the Apple way."
>>>
>>> Do you disagree that that's what Cozmic said?
>>
>>
>> I'll disagree with the content: "Cozmic" couldn't be more wrong.
>> Apple customers are typically not just pleased, but enthusiastic.
>> The very opposite of what "cozmic" is claiming.
>
> Um- yeah. Try this on for size:
>
> http://polls.gawker.com/?key==YTM2MTM&voted=1
>
> It's a gizmodo survey. Even my math skills show that more than 43% have
> returned their iPhone.

Did you learn anything about statistics and the uselessness of self selected
samples?


>>
>> Sure, there are many companies that hype a product that doesn't live up
>> to promises -- and Apple is notable because it is NOT one of them.
>
>
> They simply forget to mention the shortcomings. Hype a product as the
> Second COming, but fail to mention that it lacks key functionality.

So which shortcomings didn't people already know about?

"CozmicDebris" <isheforreal> stated in post
Xns99FBC887C3428isheforreal@216.196.97.142 on 12/3/07 7:42 PM:

> Mitch <mitch@hawaii.rr> wrote in news:031220071631214785%mitch@hawaii.rr:
>
>> In article <elmop-29194D.18261601122007@nntp1.usenetserver.com>, Elmo
>> P. Shagnasty <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hype the hell out of a product before
>>> the consumer gets it in his hands and realizes what a piece of crap it
>>> is--that's the Apple way."
>>>
>>> Do you disagree that that's what Cozmic said?
>>
>>
>> I'll disagree with the content: "Cozmic" couldn't be more wrong.
>> Apple customers are typically not just pleased, but enthusiastic.
>> The very opposite of what "cozmic" is claiming.
>
> Um- yeah. Try this on for size:
>
> http://polls.gawker.com/?key==YTM2MTM&voted=1
>
> It's a gizmodo survey. Even my math skills show that more than 43% have
> returned their iPhone.
>
>>
>> Sure, there are many companies that hype a product that doesn't live up
>> to promises -- and Apple is notable because it is NOT one of them.
>
>
> They simply forget to mention the shortcomings. Hype a product as the
> Second COming, but fail to mention that it lacks key functionality.

<http://yahoo.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/phones/2007-07-12-iphone_N.htm>
-----
Early iPhone owners are overwhelmingly happy with their
devices, a survey out Friday says, and Apple (AAPL) and AT&T
(T) are luring customers from rivals as a result. In one of
the first such studies, 90% of 200 owners said they were
"extremely" or "very" satisfied with their phone. And 85%
said they are "extremely" or "very" likely to recommend the
device to others, says the online survey conducted and paid
for by market researcher Interpret of Santa Monica, Calif.
The firm surveyed 1,000 cellphone users July 6-10.

The findings are "pretty much off the charts," says Jason
Kramer, Interpret's chief strategy officer.
-----

<http://www.changewave.com/freeconten...e=/freecontent
/2007/10/alliance-101807-AppleDoesntDisappoint.html>
-----
But the most striking finding of the survey is the iPhone¹s
outstanding customer satisfaction rating. An unprecedented
82% of iPhone owners report being Very Satisfied with their
purchase, up 5-points since our previous survey in July and
by far the highest rating of any cellular manufacturer.

The only other company with a satisfaction rating above 50%
is Research-in-Motion (RIMM; 51%).
-----

You were saying. :)


--
God made me an atheist - who are you to question his authority?

"kdt" <scarface_74@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:cf65j.8401$k27.7115@bignews2.bellsouth.net:

>
> "CozmicDebris" <isheforreal> wrote in message
> news:Xns99FBC887C3428isheforreal@216.196.97.142...
>> Mitch <mitch@hawaii.rr> wrote in
>> news:031220071631214785%mitch@hawaii.rr:
>>
>>> In article <elmop-29194D.18261601122007@nntp1.usenetserver.com>,
>>> Elmo P. Shagnasty <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hype the hell out of a product before
>>>> the consumer gets it in his hands and realizes what a piece of crap
>>>> it is--that's the Apple way."
>>>>
>>>> Do you disagree that that's what Cozmic said?
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll disagree with the content: "Cozmic" couldn't be more wrong.
>>> Apple customers are typically not just pleased, but enthusiastic.
>>> The very opposite of what "cozmic" is claiming.
>>
>> Um- yeah. Try this on for size:
>>
>> http://polls.gawker.com/?key==YTM2MTM&voted=1
>>
>> It's a gizmodo survey. Even my math skills show that more than 43%
>> have returned their iPhone.
>
> Did you learn anything about statistics and the uselessness of self
> selected samples?

I learned a lot about it- even use it from time to time. The link was
in response to a statement that Apple customers are typically not
pleased, but enthusiastic. There was no need to question the
statistical accuracy of it- it shows that in that sample, many were not
enthusiastic.

Maybe I should post the link for the macforums poll I found. Even on a
fanboi site, the nuber dissatisfied is almost as large as those that are
pleased.

>
>
>>>
>>> Sure, there are many companies that hype a product that doesn't live
>>> up to promises -- and Apple is notable because it is NOT one of
>>> them.
>>
>>
>> They simply forget to mention the shortcomings. Hype a product as
>> the Second COming, but fail to mention that it lacks key
>> functionality.
>
> So which shortcomings didn't people already know about?
>
>
>

Based on the advertising? No user replaceable advertising, no GPS, no
high speed wireless data are a few that were never addressed in the
advertising, and based on some experimentation are not addressed in the
sales pitch unles specifically asked about.

"CozmicDebris" <isheforreal> wrote in message
news:Xns99FCB35491585isheforreal@216.196.97.136...
>> Did you learn anything about statistics and the uselessness of self
>> selected samples?
>
> I learned a lot about it- even use it from time to time. The link was
> in response to a statement that Apple customers are typically not
> pleased, but enthusiastic. There was no need to question the
> statistical accuracy of it- it shows that in that sample, many were not
> enthusiastic.

How do you know that those are even Apple users? How do you know that
people didn't vote more than once? Posting a statistically meaningless
survey proves nothing.

>
> Maybe I should post the link for the macforums poll I found. Even on a
> fanboi site, the nuber dissatisfied is almost as large as those that are
> pleased.
>

Now compare that meaningless poll to a more scientific survey....
http://yahoo.usatoday.com/tech/wirel...2-iphone_N.htm

Early iPhone owners are overwhelmingly happy with their devices, a survey
out Friday says, and Apple (AAPL) and AT&T (T) are luring customers from
rivals as a result.
In one of the first such studies, 90% of 200 owners said they were
"extremely" or "very" satisfied with their phone. And 85% said they are
"extremely" or "very" likely to recommend the device to others, says the
online survey conducted and paid for by market researcher Interpret of Santa
Monica, Calif. The firm surveyed 1,000 cellphone users July 6-10.


http://www.ipodobserver.com/story/33406

And customer satisfaction is far higher than any other manufacturer,
according to a ChangeWave Research Survey that concluded on October 2nd.
Moreover, an astonishing 16 percent of the 3654 Alliance members polled said
they plan to buy an iPhone in the next six months.

#2. Not all phones are equal. "One of the most striking findings for Apple
is the iPhone's outstanding customer satisfaction rating. An impressive 82%
of iPhone owners reported being Very Satisfied with their purchase, up
5-points since our previous survey in July - by far the highest rating of
any manufacturer," according to the report.

> Based on the advertising? No user replaceable advertising, no GPS, no
> high speed wireless data are a few that were never addressed in the
> advertising, and based on some experimentation are not addressed in the
> sales pitch unles specifically asked about.

What advertisement talks about things that there product doesn't have? Are
you saying that people who are going to shell out $599 for a phone + $1440
over a two year contract didn't have sense enough to type "iphone" on google
and see opinions on the first page?
Can you find a single *scientific, statistically accurate* survey that shows
mass disatifaction with the iPhone?

"kdt" <scarface_74@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:nFv5j.21291$mb.11411@bignews9.bellsouth.net:

>
> "CozmicDebris" <isheforreal> wrote in message
> news:Xns99FCB35491585isheforreal@216.196.97.136...
>>> Did you learn anything about statistics and the uselessness of self
>>> selected samples?
>>

>
>> Based on the advertising? No user replaceable advertising, no GPS,
>> no high speed wireless data are a few that were never addressed in
>> the advertising, and based on some experimentation are not addressed
>> in the sales pitch unles specifically asked about.
>
> What advertisement talks about things that there product doesn't have?

Notice I mentioned a combination of advertising and sales pitch. The
salespeople aren't willing to point out potential pitfalls.

> Are you saying that people who are going to shell out $599 for a phone
> + $1440 over a two year contract didn't have sense enough to type
> "iphone" on google and see opinions on the first page?

I am saying just that, as well over 75% of the people buying it would never
do that. They saw the ads and bought it on the merits of those ads. Hell,
the fanbois didn't know some of the missing functionality until after the
release of the phone, despite being such "experts" in the field.


> Can you find a single *scientific, statistically accurate* survey that
> shows mass disatifaction with the iPhone?

Wait a minute- I'm not looking for statistically accurate material. The
comment was made that Apple users are always delighted with the products
they buy. I am simply showing that this is far from the case. If you're
so much of a fanboi to dismiss the information bacause it may not be
statistically accurate- oh well.

As I said in a previous post, macforums, an avowed fanboi site, has a poll
of their own, which has similar results- notice I use the word "poll" and
not "survey". I understand the accuracy of the information, but don't
dismiss the general message because of that.

>
>
>
>
>