Did Apple just trump AT&T? It appears so...

"David Friedman" <ddfr@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> stated in post
ddfr-307CA2.19501502122007@sfo.news.speakeasy.net on 12/2/07 8:50 PM:

> In article <elmop-08F80E.19342702122007@nntp1.usenetserver.com>,
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <iphone-214999.16462002122007@mpls-nnrp-05.inet.qwest.net>,
>> O x f o r d <iphone@superphone.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Hey, Oxford: who is Adele Goldberg, and what crucial role did she play
>>>> in Steve Jobs's world?
>>>
>>> After a world wide search going on for nearly 2 months, 24/7 by 1000's
>>> of people, nobody has come up with the secret you keep.
>>
>> You mean, after a search through your underwear and with you sticking
>> your head in the sand and refusing to see the answer spoon fed to you,
>> YOU haven't come up with the answer.
>>
>> Hint: the answer isn't in the sand, nor is it in your underwear.
>
> Wikipedia entry:
>
> Adele Goldberg (born July 22, 1945) is a computer scientist who wrote or
> co-wrote books on the programming language Smalltalk-80. In the 1970's
> she worked for Xerox's PARC laboratory on the Xerox Alto. She refused to
> give Steve Jobs a tour of the laboratory unless her superiors would
> order her to, which they eventually did.
>
> She is currently working for Neometron, Inc., of Palo Alto, California.
> Goldberg was born in Cleveland, Ohio, and grew up in Chicago, Illinois.
> In 1994 she was inducted as a Fellow of the Association for Computing
> Machinery.

I think the answer to the question, though, is that Adele is the one who
(grudgingly) gave a short demo of Xerox technology to Jobs and others from
Apple. The value of the demo is under some debate, but clearly it had some
influence on Jobs, Apple, and - ultimately - the home computer market as a
whole.


--
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
--Aldous Huxley

Snit <CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in
news:C378D097.9C0CB%CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com:

> "CozmicDebris" <isheforreal> stated in post
> Xns99FAD47887837isheforreal@216.196.97.142 on 12/2/07 8:53 PM:
>
>> Snit <CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in
>> news:C378C903.9C0BE%CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com:
>>
>>> "CozmicDebris" <isheforreal> stated in post
>>> Xns99FAC8D5A5457isheforreal@216.196.97.142 on 12/2/07 7:44 PM:
>>>
>>>> O x f o r d <iphone@superphone.com> wrote in news:iphone-
>>>> EBE62C.18090302122007@mpls-nnrp-05.inet.qwest.net:
>>>>
>>>>> DTC <me@nothingtoseehere.zzx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WdS4TscWH8
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What point were you trying to prove.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All that video shows is a dream list of vaporware.
>>>>>
>>>>> not sure what you mean, apple has every portion in place except
>>>>> for the foldable screen and a bit of AI.
>>>>
>>>> And it is vaporware.
>>>
>>> You either do not know the meaning of the word "vaporware" or you
>>> are purposely using it incorrectly. Or, perhaps, you are merely
>>> clueless about the video in question. Either way: it is *not*
>>> vaporware.
>>
>> Is the product in question available to the general public?
>
> What "product"? The video? If so, clearly yes... it is on YouTube.
> If you mean the fictitious products depicted in the video that were
> never promised or even claimed to be in the works, well, of course
> not.

So if they are ficticious, it would be considered......? I'm sure you
can fill in the blank, if you know what the word means, particularly in
the context of the way the clip was introduced to these newsgroups.

>>
>>>
>>>>> wireless is there, www is there, built in camera is there, voice
>>>>> rec is there, multi-touch screen is there, ichat is there.
>>>>>
>>>>> and apple/sj popularized it all...
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, stupid. Apple did not popularize wireless, www, cameras,
>>>> voice recording or chat.
>>>
>>> Apple was instrumental in at least some of those.
>>
>> No- Apple included those in their products. They were not
>> instrumental in the devlopment or inital release of many of them.
>
> Interesting movement of the goal posts from you: from popularizing to
> developing or releasing them first. Why the change?
>
>

No change- if you are going to be an ass about it, Snot, fone- they did
not popularize any of them. Will that help with your comprehension
probelm, or do you just want to be a third grade dick for the rest of
your life?

"CozmicDebris" <isheforreal> stated in post
Xns99FAD8B091705isheforreal@216.196.97.142 on 12/2/07 9:18 PM:

>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WdS4TscWH8
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What point were you trying to prove.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All that video shows is a dream list of vaporware.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> not sure what you mean, apple has every portion in place except
>>>>>> for the foldable screen and a bit of AI.
>>>>>
>>>>> And it is vaporware.
>>>>
>>>> You either do not know the meaning of the word "vaporware" or you
>>>> are purposely using it incorrectly. Or, perhaps, you are merely
>>>> clueless about the video in question. Either way: it is *not*
>>>> vaporware.
>>>
>>> Is the product in question available to the general public?
>>
>> What "product"? The video? If so, clearly yes... it is on YouTube.
>> If you mean the fictitious products depicted in the video that were
>> never promised or even claimed to be in the works, well, of course
>> not.
>
> So if they are ficticious, it would be considered......?

Fiction. Ideas. Something never announced and therefore not eligible to be
reasonably deemed to be "vaporware".

As I noted: you show no sign of understanding what vaporware is.

> I'm sure you can fill in the blank,

Absolutely!

> if you know what the word means, particularly in the context of the way the
> clip was introduced to these newsgroups.

While looking at how *others* looked at the clip might be an interesting
side issue, the issue at hand is if the products were vaperware. They were
not.

....
>>>>> Apple did not popularize wireless, www, cameras, voice recording or chat.
>>>>>
>>>> Apple was instrumental in at least some of those.
>>>>
>>> No- Apple included those in their products. They were not instrumental in
>>> the devlopment or inital release of many of them.
>>>
>> Interesting movement of the goal posts from you: from popularizing to
>> developing or releasing them first. Why the change?
>
> No change-

Clearly incorrect.

Claim 1: Apple did not popularize ....
Claim 2: They were not instrumental in the devlopment or inital release

Clearly those claims are not the same. Not even really that close.

> they did not popularize any of them.

Ah, and now you jump back to claim 1. OK. Can you support that? Who do
you think popularized each of those things: wireless, cameras, WWW, voice
recording, and chat?

> Will that help with your comprehension probelm, or do you just
> want to be a third grade dick for the rest of your life?

You sure act poorly when your goal post moving is pointed out. Oh well. I
forgive you.


--
The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is
generally employed only by small children and large nations. - David
Friedman

In article <C378D111.9C0CF%CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com>,
Snit <CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> "David Friedman" <ddfr@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> stated in post
> ddfr-307CA2.19501502122007@sfo.news.speakeasy.net on 12/2/07 8:50 PM:
>
> > In article <elmop-08F80E.19342702122007@nntp1.usenetserver.com>,
> > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <iphone-214999.16462002122007@mpls-nnrp-05.inet.qwest.net>,
> >> O x f o r d <iphone@superphone.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Hey, Oxford: who is Adele Goldberg, and what crucial role did she play
> >>>> in Steve Jobs's world?
> >>>
> >>> After a world wide search going on for nearly 2 months, 24/7 by 1000's
> >>> of people, nobody has come up with the secret you keep.
> >>
> >> You mean, after a search through your underwear and with you sticking
> >> your head in the sand and refusing to see the answer spoon fed to you,
> >> YOU haven't come up with the answer.
> >>
> >> Hint: the answer isn't in the sand, nor is it in your underwear.
> >
> > Wikipedia entry:
> >
> > Adele Goldberg (born July 22, 1945) is a computer scientist who wrote or
> > co-wrote books on the programming language Smalltalk-80. In the 1970's
> > she worked for Xerox's PARC laboratory on the Xerox Alto. She refused to
> > give Steve Jobs a tour of the laboratory unless her superiors would
> > order her to, which they eventually did.
> >
> > She is currently working for Neometron, Inc., of Palo Alto, California.
> > Goldberg was born in Cleveland, Ohio, and grew up in Chicago, Illinois.
> > In 1994 she was inducted as a Fellow of the Association for Computing
> > Machinery.
>
> I think the answer to the question, though, is that Adele is the one who
> (grudgingly) gave a short demo of Xerox technology to Jobs and others from
> Apple. The value of the demo is under some debate, but clearly it had some
> influence on Jobs, Apple, and - ultimately - the home computer market as a
> whole.

Hard to tell.

As best I recall, there were two other computer firms doing similar
projects--home computers with graphical interfaces based on the Xerox
Parc work--at the same time as Apple (Atari and Amiga). So if Apple
hadn't done it, perhaps one of those would have taken over the role
Apple actually played.

--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic.
Published by Baen, in bookstores now

"David Friedman" <ddfr@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> stated in post
ddfr-AC31D9.22084802122007@sfo.news.speakeasy.net on 12/2/07 11:08 PM:

> In article <C378D111.9C0CF%CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com>,
> Snit <CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>
>> "David Friedman" <ddfr@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> stated in post
>> ddfr-307CA2.19501502122007@sfo.news.speakeasy.net on 12/2/07 8:50 PM:
>>
>>> In article <elmop-08F80E.19342702122007@nntp1.usenetserver.com>,
>>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <iphone-214999.16462002122007@mpls-nnrp-05.inet.qwest.net>,
>>>> O x f o r d <iphone@superphone.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Hey, Oxford: who is Adele Goldberg, and what crucial role did she play
>>>>>> in Steve Jobs's world?
>>>>>
>>>>> After a world wide search going on for nearly 2 months, 24/7 by 1000's
>>>>> of people, nobody has come up with the secret you keep.
>>>>
>>>> You mean, after a search through your underwear and with you sticking
>>>> your head in the sand and refusing to see the answer spoon fed to you,
>>>> YOU haven't come up with the answer.
>>>>
>>>> Hint: the answer isn't in the sand, nor is it in your underwear.
>>>
>>> Wikipedia entry:
>>>
>>> Adele Goldberg (born July 22, 1945) is a computer scientist who wrote or
>>> co-wrote books on the programming language Smalltalk-80. In the 1970's
>>> she worked for Xerox's PARC laboratory on the Xerox Alto. She refused to
>>> give Steve Jobs a tour of the laboratory unless her superiors would
>>> order her to, which they eventually did.
>>>
>>> She is currently working for Neometron, Inc., of Palo Alto, California.
>>> Goldberg was born in Cleveland, Ohio, and grew up in Chicago, Illinois.
>>> In 1994 she was inducted as a Fellow of the Association for Computing
>>> Machinery.
>>
>> I think the answer to the question, though, is that Adele is the one who
>> (grudgingly) gave a short demo of Xerox technology to Jobs and others from
>> Apple. The value of the demo is under some debate, but clearly it had some
>> influence on Jobs, Apple, and - ultimately - the home computer market as a
>> whole.
>
> Hard to tell.
>
> As best I recall, there were two other computer firms doing similar
> projects--home computers with graphical interfaces based on the Xerox
> Parc work--at the same time as Apple (Atari and Amiga). So if Apple
> hadn't done it, perhaps one of those would have taken over the role
> Apple actually played.

Sure: if Apple never existed we would *not* still be using CLI computers...
we would be using some form of GUI. Still, it was Apple who deserves the
credit, even if someone else likely would have done something relatively
similar had they not.


--
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.
--Aldous Huxley

In article <C378EDCD.9C119%CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com>,
Snit <CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> > As best I recall, there were two other computer firms doing similar
> > projects--home computers with graphical interfaces based on the Xerox
> > Parc work--at the same time as Apple (Atari and Amiga). So if Apple
> > hadn't done it, perhaps one of those would have taken over the role
> > Apple actually played.
>
> Sure: if Apple never existed we would *not* still be using CLI computers...
> we would be using some form of GUI. Still, it was Apple who deserves the
> credit, even if someone else likely would have done something relatively
> similar had they not.
>

Some of the credit. The original work was done at Xerox, and Atari and
Amiga were selling GUI machines at about the same time as Apple,
although they didn't up being as successful.

--
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of _Harald_, a fantasy without magic.
Published by Baen, in bookstores now

"David Friedman" <ddfr@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com> stated in post
ddfr-F3F9EC.22270302122007@sfo.news.speakeasy.net on 12/2/07 11:27 PM:

> In article <C378EDCD.9C119%CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com>,
> Snit <CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>
>>> As best I recall, there were two other computer firms doing similar
>>> projects--home computers with graphical interfaces based on the Xerox
>>> Parc work--at the same time as Apple (Atari and Amiga). So if Apple
>>> hadn't done it, perhaps one of those would have taken over the role
>>> Apple actually played.
>>
>> Sure: if Apple never existed we would *not* still be using CLI computers...
>> we would be using some form of GUI. Still, it was Apple who deserves the
>> credit, even if someone else likely would have done something relatively
>> similar had they not.
>
> Some of the credit.

Of course. Fair enough.

> The original work was done at Xerox, and Atari and Amiga were selling GUI
> machines at about the same time as Apple, although they didn't up being as
> successful.

And let us not forget our friends at Microsoft: they have helped push the
GUI in some ways as well... though they clearly were not at the forefront
really pushing things. At least not on their own OS, anyway. :)


--
Picture of a tuna milkshake: http://snipurl.com/f34z
Feel free to ask for the recipe.

In article <C378D111.9C0CF%CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com>,
Snit <CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> I think the answer to the question, though, is that Adele is the one who
> (grudgingly) gave a short demo of Xerox technology to Jobs and others from
> Apple.

That's half the answer.

In article <C378AE84.9C082%CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com>,
Snit <CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> > Anyway, Jobs and company saw nothing BUT the GUI, and completely missed
> > the significance of the network and the printing. COMPLETELY.
>
> And yet Apple was very early in the home networking environment (did
> *anyone* beat them to that... think of the old PhoneNet adapters) and they
> pretty much created the desktop publishing industry.
> >
> > Jobs was so blind, it wasn't funny.
>
> Support?
>

Plenty. Just read the record.

I'm waiting for Oxtard to go back to what he was SPOON-FED and read it.

Oh, wait--you're oxtard, aren't you?

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> stated in post
elmop-9A1DEE.05561403122007@nntp1.usenetserver.com on 12/3/07 3:56 AM:

> In article <C378AE84.9C082%CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com>,
> Snit <CSMA@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>
>>> Anyway, Jobs and company saw nothing BUT the GUI, and completely missed
>>> the significance of the network and the printing. COMPLETELY.
>>
>> And yet Apple was very early in the home networking environment (did
>> *anyone* beat them to that... think of the old PhoneNet adapters) and they
>> pretty much created the desktop publishing industry.
>>>
>>> Jobs was so blind, it wasn't funny.
>>
>> Support?
>>
>
> Plenty. Just read the record.
>
> I'm waiting for Oxtard to go back to what he was SPOON-FED and read it.
>
> Oh, wait--you're oxtard, aren't you?
>
You sure spew a lot of accusations when you cannot support your claims. Oh
well.


--
Never stand between a dog and the hydrant. - John Peers