T-Mobile wins accolades from J.D. Power again

On 2008-05-16, Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:

> From what I read in the trades, they came up with it and blindsided
> everybody.

Hm. Could certainly have happened that way. Certainly surprised me! :)


--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com
Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol

"M.L." <me@privacy.invalid> wrote in message
news:CSdXj.1649$l97.628@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
> The number of unlocked AT&T phones for sale on ebay will give you some
> idea of the popularity, in addition to the number of cellphone unlocking
> businesses on the Internet and ebay.

I'm not arguing about that- individual users are allowed plenty of
flexibility as to handset selection on AT&T and T-Mobile, as opposed to the
restrictive practices of Verizon and Sprint. The discussion was really
about churn and the reasons for it, or why customers choose particular
carriers over others, and I was making the case that lack of good high-end
handsets, and the features they offer, was one of the reasons T-Mo is less
popular than it is. Sure, I can buy an iPhone, or an unlocked Tilt or
whatever from AT&T or an N95 and put it them T-Mo, but without 3G, video
calling, mobile TV, etc., it's not really that advantageous to me to bother.
For example, I have a T-Mo MDA (HTC Wizard) now- what would, say, an 8525 or
a Tilt get me that I don't already have, when T-Mo doesn't offer compatible
3G?

> Much of the unlocking business is for used cellphones, and for those
> wanting to avoid getting a phone with a contract..

Until recently (Flexpay) a no-contract plan with T-Mo wasn't an option for
new customers- you could bring your shiny new N95 to them and they'd still
demand a 1-year contract. You poibt, however, is certainly valid with
respect to upgrades- unlocked/used phones can avoid a renewal if you're
replacing a broken or featureless phone.

> Sure, I can buy
> an iPhone, or an unlocked Tilt or whatever from AT&T or an N95 and
> put it them T-Mo, but without 3G, video calling, mobile TV, etc.,
> it's not really that advantageous to me to bother. For example, I
> have a T-Mo MDA (HTC Wizard) now- what would, say, an 8525 or a Tilt
> get me that I don't already have, when T-Mo doesn't offer compatible
> 3G?

In general, the unlocking community buys AT&T phones that can be flashed
into compatibility with T-mobile so that no features are lost in the
trade.

At 16 May 2008 23:51:35 -0500 M.L. wrote:

> In general, the unlocking community buys AT&T phones that can be flashed
into compatibility with T-mobile so that no features are lost in the trade.

T-Mobile USA's 3G, that just launched last week, is on a frequency
previously unused by any cellular company in the world (1700MHz). You can
unlock, reprogram, flash, or even puree any current AT&T phone all you like
and it won't work on T-Mo 3G.

Steve Sobol wrote:

> Ha. Verizon won't do anything like that, since they have never felt the need to
> compete on price.

Sure they do. They don't try to set the lowest price, but they can't
charge more either.

Look at "http://www.mobileburn.com/plans.jsp" and do some comparisons.

$40 buys you 500 minutes on Alltel, 450 minutes on AT&T, Sprint, and
Verizon (all with free MTM), and 600 minutes on T-Mobile (with no MTM).

$60 buys you 900 minutes on Alltel, AT&T, Sprint, and Verizon (all with
free MTM), and 1500 minutes on T-Mobile (with no MTM).

$80 buys you 1400 minutes on Alltel, 1350 minutes on AT&T, Sprint, and
Verizon (all with free MTM), (T-Mobile has no plan at that price point).

Only T-Mobile advertises a $30/month plan (though other carriers do have
them apparently).

Actually Verizon ends up being less than AT&T and Sprint (not sure about
Alltel) because their junk fees are much lower). They're probably being
stupid in this approach because they don't advertise the lower junk
fees. Few people check the junk fees when comparing prices. OTOH, you
don't get stuff like rollover on Verizon.

It goes beyond the price too. Look at free MTM. Verizon has, by far, the
largest number of retail customers (customers that you can call with
free MTM). While AT&T has more users of their network, giving them
bragging rights of "largest carrier"), they have a lot of MVNO customers
included, who don't qualify as in network (not sure if AT&T's own
prepaid customers can be called as in-network by a post paid AT&T customer).

If you're buying by price, and know about SERO, Sprint is the best deal,
as long as you buy a handset that you can force to roam on Verizon.

>> In general, the unlocking community buys AT&T phones that can be
>> flashed
> into compatibility with T-mobile so that no features are lost in the
> trade.
>
> T-Mobile USA's 3G, that just launched last week, is on a frequency
> previously unused by any cellular company in the world (1700MHz). You
> can
> unlock, reprogram, flash, or even puree any current AT&T phone all you
> like
> and it won't work on T-Mo 3G.

Indeed, so the unlocking community won't be buying AT&T phones for their
3G feature.

At 17 May 2008 06:53:21 -0700 SMS wrote:

> Sure they do. They don't try to set the lowest price, but they can't
> charge more either.
>
> Look at "http://www.mobileburn.com/plans.jsp" and do some comparisons.
>
> $40 buys you 500 minutes on Alltel, 450 minutes on AT&T, Sprint, and
> Verizon (all with free MTM), and 600 minutes on T-Mobile (with no MTM).


Here we go again...

While the number of "peak" minutes is equivalent, other options vary wildly-
unused AT&T minutes rollver, perhaps allowing the customer to use a lower
plan- Sprint has earlier nights, Alltel allows one "circle" number- any
number you define gets unlimited calling to/from.

Add-ons like data and texting are often much higher from Verizon- although
they've improved on this only recently.


> It goes beyond the price too. Look at free MTM. Verizon has, by far,
> the largest number of retail customers (customers that you can call
> with free MTM). While AT&T
> has more users of their network, giving them bragging rights of "largest
> carrier"), they have a lot of MVNO customers included, who don't qualify
> as in network (not sure if AT&T's own prepaid customers can be called
> as in-network by a post paid AT&T customer).


Actually they can. MVNO customers are treated as AT&T customers for M2M.

> If you're buying by price, and know about SERO, Sprint is the best deal,
> as long as you buy a handset that you can force to roam on Verizon.


If not you can still use Sprint's perfectly adequate network. <Insert anti-
1900MHz reply here...>

Todd Allcock wrote:

>> If you're buying by price, and know about SERO, Sprint is the best deal,
>> as long as you buy a handset that you can force to roam on Verizon.
>
>
> If not you can still use Sprint's perfectly adequate network. <Insert anti-
> 1900MHz reply here...>

Here we go again. 1900 MHz is a side issue that you seem to be obsessed
with. Sprint (and T-Mobile) often _want_ to install more cells to
mitigate the shorter range of 1900 MHz, but they are constantly being
blocked by residents that don't want towers in their neighborhood.

I.e. a failure for Sprint:

"Following testimony from residents of Cupertino's Jollyman Park
neighborhood, the city council unanimously denied an appeal from the
Sprint PCS wireless company to build a wireless antenna in the
community. Residents objected to its appearance and the proposed
placement on a church tower."

And a victory for T-Mobile:

"T-Mobile has been given the go-ahead to erect a 32-foot wireless
communications monopole on Bollinger Road. The commission denied
T-Mobile's prior application to build a 35-foot tall wireless monopole
at the same location in December 2005" (actually it wasn't the same
location, T-Mobile moved the tower from a location directly behind some
houses, over to the other side of a shopping center, away from the houses).

What really makes it difficult for Sprint and T-Mobile is that when the
hearings are held on granting permission for a tower, invariably
residents will show up and state that their cell phone service is fine,
and that they don't understand why Sprint or T-Mobile needs cells in the
specific location when the other carriers manage without them.

I'm sure there are area where Sprint's network is perfectly adequate.
But it's adequate in a lot less places than Verizon's and AT&T's,
because of their need for so many more towers to cover the same
geographical area, and the NIMBY's that don't want to let them install
them. It's not a problem that I invented, it's a very real issue in many
areas.

On Fri, 16 May 2008 23:34:14 -0600, Todd Allcock
<elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:

>At 16 May 2008 23:51:35 -0500 M.L. wrote:
>
>> In general, the unlocking community buys AT&T phones that can be flashed
>into compatibility with T-mobile so that no features are lost in the trade.
>
>T-Mobile USA's 3G, that just launched last week, is on a frequency
>previously unused by any cellular company in the world (1700MHz). You can
>unlock, reprogram, flash, or even puree any current AT&T phone all you like
>and it won't work on T-Mo 3G.
>
>
And let's not forget too that relatively few phone manufacturers have
thus far announced firm plans and/or ship dates for devices that
support this new frequency range. Thus, I think most people will be
holding off on 3G for a while, both because of phone lineup and
obviously because of the fact that it will be quite some time before
it's nationwide.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

At 16 Jun 2008 10:15:16 -0400 Cyrus Afzali wrote:
> > You can
> > unlock, reprogram, flash, or even puree any current AT&T phone all you
like
> > and it won't work on T-Mo 3G.
> >
> >
> And let's not forget too that relatively few phone manufacturers have
> thus far announced firm plans and/or ship dates for devices that
> support this new frequency range. Thus, I think most people will be
> holding off on 3G for a while, both because of phone lineup and
> obviously because of the fact that it will be quite some time before
> it's nationwide.

Why not- we've waited THREE YEARS for T-Mo to offer 3G- what's another year
or two, right? Personally, I suspect Apes will rise up and take over the
planet before I see 3G from T-Mo! ;-)