Breaking Rumor: Apple iPhone goes enterprise on Jan. 21

At 18 Jan 2008 21:07:38 -0500 Bill Kearney wrote:

> > Regardless, some orizations are, and for Apple it's at leastva step in
the
> > right direction...
>
> Ones that actually use software with spell checkers?
>

Oops! Sorry- I tend to dash off most, if not all, of my usenet babblings
from the QMail client in my Windows Mobile 6 phone (like this post). A
great program, but certainly not as polished or as featured as a desktop
client. It lacks a spell checker, which is only half the problem- after
seven years of using touchscreen-based Windows CE devices I can often peck
the soft keyboard faster than than this phone can process the taps,
resulting in missed letters (like the "gan" in organization!) You'll also
notice a lot of lowercase "v" instead of spaces in my posts- that's just my
bad habit of allowing the stylus to touch down early on the way to the
spacebar! ;-)

(The skipped letters aren't so much a testiment to my great speed at
"typing" with a stylus as much as an indication of how underpowered the HTC
Wizard is with it's pokey 200MHz processor. If it's busy with too many
other tasks, like downloading e-mail while I'm listening to music, screen
input gets really intermittent!)


To clarify my badly written post, I'm not really a fan of either the iPhone
or Lotus Notes- it just seems like this is a small step towards Apple
addressing some of the device's shortcomings for enterprise e-mail.

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Mark Crispin posted:
> I wonder how many enterprises will tolerate
> The iPhone "iPhone" could not be restored. An unknown
> error occurred (2001).
> as the final phase of installation/setup of a new-in-box iPhone (or iPod
> Touch) that happens not to have the latest software (and thus iTunes offers
> to upgrade it).

And now it's two bricks in the same evening. First get "Unknown error
1602" when trying to upgrade, then the silly thing goes into "recovery
mode" and you get "unknown error 2001".

Such fine, enterprise-level quality.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

In article <alpine.OSX.1.00.0801190004170.502@pangtzu.panda.c om>, Mark
Crispin <mrc@Washington.EDU> wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Mark Crispin posted:
> > I wonder how many enterprises will tolerate
> > The iPhone "iPhone" could not be restored. An unknown
> > error occurred (2001).
> > as the final phase of installation/setup of a new-in-box iPhone (or iPod
> > Touch) that happens not to have the latest software (and thus iTunes offers
> > to upgrade it).
>
> And now it's two bricks in the same evening. First get "Unknown error
> 1602" when trying to upgrade, then the silly thing goes into "recovery
> mode" and you get "unknown error 2001".
>
> Such fine, enterprise-level quality.

Readers will note that Mark is claiming his hatred of iPhone made him
buy one.
If you find that believable, he now claims he is having this problem
(just him!) on a new iPhone (new, but without the latest software?).

And he uses that unbelievable story to suggest that enterprise won't
accept it -- a segment of the market that has so much trouble with
high-tech they staff tech support before purchasing, and assume every
business has to accept garbage like malware and hardware/software
conflicts, just because their current system often has those problems.

Mark Crispin isn't being honest or reasonable.

"Mitch" <mitch@hawaii.rr> wrote in message
news:190120081824009753%mitch@hawaii.rr...
>... isn't being honest or reasonable.

But at least he's coherent. You, OTOH, come off like a drunk fool.

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008, Mitch posted:
> Readers will note that Mark is claiming his hatred of iPhone made him
> buy one.

Actually, it wasn't an iPhone, it was an iPod Touch. The iPhone without a
phone.

And yes, the purpose was to go and give the technology a full evaluation
without having retarded fanboys like Mitch in Hawaii claiming that "you
can't rate it fairly because you don't own one."

I refused an iPhone offered to me freely, because I have no need for a
locked 2G GSM phone. I'm quite happy on Verizon's 3G EV-DO cellular
network in the US, and Softbank's 3G UMTS network in Japan. But as the
purpose of the testing was to test the non-phone stuff and I don't care
about toy cameras, now that iPod Touch has the missing applications in the
software upgrade it can be done on that.

> If you find that believable, he now claims he is having this problem
> (just him!) on a new iPhone (new, but without the latest software?).

The bricking was on two successive iPod Touches, which indeed did not have
the latest software and thus needed to be upgraded.

However, a simple Google search, which apparently is beyond the capability
of fanboy Mitch in Hawaii, shows that people have been having this problem
with iPhone too.

Even better, a call to Apple Technical Support included the representative
saying that there have been quite a few of this exact problem lately.
After having me uninstall and reinstall iTunes and Quicktime on the
Macintosh, he stated that the only fix is to take it to a Apple repair
center for repair, but that since I just bought it I should take it back.
I did so (a 50 mile round trip), and the same thing happened to the second
one.

Actually, the Apple representative wasn't quite correct on that last bit.
It turns out that you can fix an iPod Touch or iPhone that has been
bricked in this fashion, so it wasn't really bricked. The fix is, hold on
to your seats boys and girls, to...
USE A WINDOWS MACHINE INSTEAD OF A MACINTOSH!!

Yessiree, iTunes on Macintosh can't do a software upgrade without making
the iToy useless, but iTunes on Windows can.

I contacted one of the people who got his (unhacked) iPhone bricked by the
latest software upgrade, and asked him if he used a Mac. He did; and I
suggested to him that he try it with Windows. Sure enough, that fixed it
for him too.

> And he uses that unbelievable story

Believe it because it happened. And I have the paperwork and digital
photos to prove that it did. And I have a reproducable script to make any
other new-in-box iPod Touch useless using a Macintosh.

If Apple does not believe me, I am willing to go to any of their stores
and show them how it's done. I can then show how to fix it using Windows.

> to suggest that enterprise won't
> accept it -- a segment of the market that has so much trouble with
> high-tech they staff tech support before purchasing, and assume every
> business has to accept garbage like malware and hardware/software
> conflicts, just because their current system often has those problems.

You obviously don't have a clue about what enterprises use.

> Mark Crispin isn't being honest or reasonable.

Sorry that your precious little Jesus device fails to live up to its hype.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008, Bill Kearney posted:
> "Mitch" <mitch@hawaii.rr> wrote in message
> news:190120081824009753%mitch@hawaii.rr...
>> ... isn't being honest or reasonable.
> But at least he's coherent. You, OTOH, come off like a drunk fool.

It was fun, actually, especially when I started Googleing around to find
other victims of the same problem. In the end, the only real waste was
the unnecessary 50 mile round trip to get a second one to break, because
the first one could have been fixed if only I had tried to use the Windows
system to fix it. But I just assumed that it would be better to use a
Macintosh with an iPod.

It did make me feel good to give that hint (to use Windows) to that fellow
who had his iPhone break. It worked for him, and he would have been stuck
otherwise.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

In article <alpine.OSX.1.00.0801201023210.644@pangtzu.panda.c om>, Mark
Crispin <mrc@Washington.EDU> wrote:

> And yes, the purpose was to go and give the technology a full evaluation
> without having retarded fanboys like Mitch in Hawaii claiming that "you
> can't rate it fairly because you don't own one."
Actually, I think I said you can't rate it's useability and design
fairly without giving using it a fair trial. I'm not accepting that
Mark Crispin could ever compare anything without using it; others might
compare features and compare just those usefully. Mark is too motivated
to make unfair generalizations, claims, and comparisons. (And now
namecalling, apparently, is his way to convince you he's more fair.)

> However, a simple Google search, which apparently is beyond the capability
> of fanboy Mitch in Hawaii, shows that people have been having this problem
> with iPhone too.
I didn't claim that no one was having the problem, or that it was with
just one version of the devices. I suggested it wasn't usual.

> And I have a reproducable script to make any
> other new-in-box iPod Touch useless using a Macintosh.
That part is too funny -- as though it would be hard to make almost any
device (especially those running Windows!) useless with a script.

> > to suggest that enterprise won't
> > accept it -- a segment of the market that has so much trouble with
> > high-tech they staff tech support before purchasing, and assume every
> > business has to accept garbage like malware and hardware/software
> > conflicts, just because their current system often has those problems.
>
> You obviously don't have a clue about what enterprises use.
Hah! Has Mark decided that Windows isn't the cause of the horrendous
Windows problems permeating all of business world?
Nope; he decides instead to ignore which platform creates the problems,
and just to claim it is my ignorance of what they use and what problems
they have (without stating where those problems lie, or maybe denying
that business has any computer problems?)

> > Mark Crispin isn't being honest or reasonable.
>
> Sorry that your precious little Jesus device fails to live up to its hype.
Boy, are YOU off-base. _I_ never once claimed that iPhone was such a
device. I stated only that _your_ stupid reasons weren't valid
complaints and criticisms.
I really don't care what device we are discussing -- you just made
stupid arguments against this one.

"Mitch" <mitch@hawaii.rr> stated in post 260120081712294320%mitch@hawaii.rr
on 1/26/08 8:12 PM:

>> However, a simple Google search, which apparently is beyond the capability
>> of fanboy Mitch in Hawaii, shows that people have been having this problem
>> with iPhone too.

> I didn't claim that no one was having the problem, or that it was with
> just one version of the devices. I suggested it wasn't usual.

I have noticed this tactic with the trolls - they hunt down every problem
they can with the iPhone or Leopard or the Mac or Apple in general and then
claim they have had these problems. Over time it becomes clear they are
lying - no reason to think any one person has all those problems, they
cannot describe the problems (sometimes to the extreme of not even being
able to quote or paraphrase error messages they claim to get), and their
stories change over time. They often will have people co-trolling with them
insisting they are right, but, of course, even those people cannot list the
all the problems that were claimed - not even the biggest supporters of the
trolls can keep track of the ever changing and growing lists.

Weird. Just weird. Who do they think they are fooling? People are just
not as dumb as the trolls need them to be in order to fall for such BS.

--
Picture of a tuna milkshake: http://snipurl.com/f34z
Feel free to ask for the recipe.

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Snit posted:
> I have noticed this tactic with the trolls - they hunt down every problem
> they can with the iPhone or Leopard or the Mac or Apple in general and then
> claim they have had these problems.

There's one little problem with your little fanboy theory:

APPLE TAKES MY REPORT SERIOUSLY.

I am in contact with their engineers. They are *very* interested in
reproducing what I saw.

Apparently, there is a known problem with iTunes; on some hardware
configurations the USB port gets screwed up in the course of
loading/restoring the software onto the iToy and that leads to the
failure.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, Mitch posted:
> Actually, I think I said you can't rate it's useability and design
> fairly without giving using it a fair trial.

I bricked two iPod Touch devices in one evening by doing nothing other
than going through the initial setup with iTunes on a Macintosh including
agreeing to let iTunes install the latest software.

It was only after the second one (and an unnecessary 50 mile round trip to
the store) that I thought of trying iTunes on a Windows system; and
Windows unbricked it.

Apple, at least, is very interested in following up on my report.
Apple's fanboys just want to silence me.

> I'm not accepting that
> Mark Crispin could ever compare anything without using it; others might
> compare features and compare just those usefully. Mark is too motivated
> to make unfair generalizations, claims, and comparisons.

According to Mitch, it is unfair to point out that:
. iPhone is locked to the worst network in the USA and Apple aggressively
attacks unlocked iPhones.
. iPhone lacks 3G - hence poor sales in Europe and no chance of sales in
Japan.
. iPhone's GSM performance is average; it is not the best-performing GSM
phone on the market.
. iPhone omits most Bluetooth functionality.
. iPhone lacks the ability to tether to a laptop (you are paying HOW MUCH
for a data plan just to do web browsing???).
. iPhone lacks voice dialing - a basic feature on all but the cheapest
phones.
. iPhone is very expensive, not just compared to other phones, but to
Internet tablets (such as Nokia N800) and phones combined.
. iPhone ($400) is expensive compared to iPod Classic ($330) which has
20 times as much storage capacity.
. iPod Touch 16GB ($400) and iPod Touch 8GB ($300) are expensive
compared to iPod Classic ($330) which has 10-20 times as much storage
capacity and is equally good at being an iPod.
. iPhone and iPod Touch are expensive compared to Nokia N800 ($230 on
Amazon) which has 2 SDHC slots (thus expandable to 32GB), has more
than twice the screen resolution, has full Bluetooth capability so
can be tethered to a Bluetooth cellphone on *any* company, and is a
completely open platform.
. iPod Touch is somewhat expensive compared to Sony mylo second
generation ($300), which has more than twice the screen resolution
and has a Memory Stick Pro Duo slot expandable to 32GB.
. iPhone and iPod Touch are expensive compared to Nokia N810 ($230 on
Amazon) which has a miniSD slot expandable to 32GB, has more than
twice the screen resolution, has full Bluetooth capability so can be
tethered to a Bluetooth cellphone on *any* company, has built-in
GPS, has a keyboard, and is a completely open platform.
. iPhone and iPod Touch are closed platforms, precluding third party
software development, and Apple aggressively attacks jailbroken
iPhones and iPod Touches. Apple's promise of an SDK is just that;
a promise, nothing more. Until it is available, and its capabilities
studied and verified to provide an open development environment, the
platform is closed.
. iPhone and iPod Touch can only be managed via iTunes, a consumer-grade
product that is not at all suitable in enterprises.
. iPhone and iPod Touch do not permit direct download from the Internet;
it must go through iTunes.
. iPhone and iPod Touch only permit synchronization with a single
computer. Even ancient Windows CE devices allowed synchronization
with multiple computers!
. iPhone and iPod Touch have only a basic contact management application
with very limited controls. For example, you can set how names are
displayed, but only for all names. If you set "Last Name, First
Name" (as in a phone book, or to display East Asian names correctly),
it screws up on names with middle names: it actually does "Last,
Middle, First" (e.g., "George W. Bush" comes out as "Bush W. George").
. iPhone and iPod Touch lack a task management application.
. iPhone and iPod Touch, by virtue of using capacitance technology,
preclude the use of a stylus for more precise screen operations.
. iPhone and iPod Touch have very low (320x480) screen resolution for an
Internet tablet (Nokia N800/N810 and Sony mylo all have 800x480).
Compared to Internet tablets, web page reading is quite painful due to
the need to zoom in and zoom out.

As part of my testing, I put the iPod Touch and the Nokia N800 side by
side and asked other people which gave a better Internet access
experience. Typical comments about the iPod Touch was "I can't read it",
"photos are washed out and grainy", "too hard to type on it".

The iPhone and iPod Touch are not particularly good Internet tablets; nor
is iPhone a particularly impressive smartphone. They are iPods that stray
into being Internet tablets and phones.

There is no doubt that iPhone and iPod Touch are great at being iPods, and
do a better job at being iPods than their non-Apple competition. However
(and this is a big however!) other Apple iPods (most notably iPod Classic
160GB) do an even better job at being iPods.

> (And now
> namecalling, apparently, is his way to convince you he's more fair.)

I namecall mindless fanboys like you who deny the truth when it fails to
jive with your beliefs.

It is UTTERLY UNACCEPTABLE that a new-in-box device bricks for no reason
other than installing the recommended software update as part of a
perfectly ordinary setup process.

>> However, a simple Google search, which apparently is beyond the capability
>> of fanboy Mitch in Hawaii, shows that people have been having this problem
>> with iPhone too.
> I didn't claim that no one was having the problem, or that it was with
> just one version of the devices. I suggested it wasn't usual.

Here's a hint to you and all other fanboys: a proper product test includes
letting your most hostile critics at it. If they can break it, doing
something perfectly ordinary, then the product needs to be fixed.

In this case, I didn't get a chance to test it at all before it bricked as
part of following the setup process. Note well that I did not do anything
other than the first-time setup and agree to its suggestion to upgrade the
software.

>> And I have a reproducable script to make any
>> other new-in-box iPod Touch useless using a Macintosh.
> That part is too funny -- as though it would be hard to make almost any
> device (especially those running Windows!) useless with a script.

Yes, it's funny.

It's really funny since the script consists of doing a perfectly ordinary
setup and installation.

Usually, Microsoft gets that right, even though they have trouble doing
such things as complying with published Internet standards.

> Hah! Has Mark decided that Windows isn't the cause of the horrendous
> Windows problems permeating all of business world?

It's better than the horrendous Macintosh problems that existed 20 years
ago. Or perhaps you are too young to remember that there was a time when
Macintosh was far ahead of Windows. There's a reason why it lost that
position, and that reason is far more based upon what Apple did than what
Microsoft did.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.